Leader of the Order of the Dragon Knights guild and Count for Lord Paramount Stoddart
Leader of the Order of the Dragon Knights guild and Count for Lord Paramount Stoddart
Posted By Skrge at 1:45 PM - Sun Nov 05 2017
I really like the realism of being able to kill or be killed while their actually being penalties like going to jail, etc.... Adds to the realism. Like it has been said before, travelling out into the wilds or walking down a dark alley wouldn't generally be done alone in real life, so why would you in an immersive game.
nothing like a 1 posts necrothreader!
Posted By Random Carnage at 6:53 PM - Sat Nov 04 2017
Late to the thread, and just read this. So, the short answer is that for all intents and purposes, there is nothing in game to stop trolls griefing? Good to know. I would have expected some kind of infamy rating that triggered a bounty on their heads to encourage them to be hunted down, and some NPC "kings men" dedicated to clearing out the scum. No civilised realm would simply ignore the ongoing murder of citizens within its boarders. If this is left up to PCs to manage, it will fail and people will leave. I've been through enough of these to know that purists who say "good riddance" to the casual player are dooming their own game to critical mass implosion and the death of their game rather than the enhancement of their preferred playing experience. If you want 1000 so called "hard core" PvPers remaining griefing each other - good luck to you.
Something that can be hard to see and wrap your head around is the idea that, from a mechanical standpoint, there is no real difference between a PC and an NPC. Don't get me wrong: AI controlled PCs and NPCs won't be perfectly identical to players, but as far as the game mechanics themselves go, they have the same level of agency. That means that anything a player can do in the rules of the game, the NPCs can and will do as well. For example, NPCs trade information and have a memory of the information they've been exposed to. They use that information to form opinions. And they use those opinions along with their own needs and personality to inform their decision making.
An NPC with a pressing need for safety and the opinion that you're a lowlife bandit who might one day murder their family will act accordingly and that could culminate with a bounty on your head depending on how things play out, with no player involvement what-so-ever.
So while, no, there won't be special systems in place purpose-built to deal with griefers and trolls, that isn't because we're leaving everything up to players and players only. Rather, instead, it's because the tools are in place for anyone to deal with the issue, be they PC, OPC, or NPC.
As a multiplayer evolving online world, it's critical that the tools we use are applied consistently, in a manner that works within the rule space of the overall simulation of the world we're building rather than in an overtly system-breaking way that could disrupt the sim. That doesn't mean it won't be in our power to intervene if we had to, but it does mean that we expect the world sim and the players to be able to resolve the bulk of issues seamlessly and have provided the tools necessary to make that so.
Hope that helps! :)
My unsolicited 2 cents. Perhaps if we knew how information is propagated, and at what point the disguise/deviant tree intersects and alters that flow folks wouldn’t bring this up every other week.
I appreciate the explaination but for example. If an NPC sees me murder someone that NPC has a piece of information that implicates me in the murder. If I in turn kill him leaving no witness how does the information propagate?
I would assume some evidence would be left at the scene but if I spend points on deviant skills such as a disguise and have a decent one at what point would I be able to murder NPCs without repercussions?
Again very nice explaination just still a lot of unknowns/misconceptions surrounding this. And given the general opinion of games like Rust (never played it myself) where greifers seem to run wild leads folks to have concerns dropping hundreds on a game where it’s possible to circumvent the system by design.
I personally am looking forward to the challenge having to outsmart anyone and everyone but even I am concerned I will need to log off inside my personal fortress with (as Caspian used in a DJ) a fortified room with no windows and a single door guarded by multiple guards just not to log into a dead character each day.
And yes it’s a necro thread but it is something that gets brought up a lot.
Just my thoughts on this:
Is it safe to assume then Snipehunter, that if I as a mayor deem someone to be a murdered I can call a city guard meeting and pass the information along to the guards essentially making them aware of his presence?
From what I've been told of the information system people who directly observe an event will receive a basically log of what they see which they can trade to other players or NPCs. If there was an eye witness to the events, they could trade their event log witnessing the murderers actions to the mayor and he can pass that on to the NPC guards.
You apparently can also fabricate pieces of information, but Players and NPCs will have intuition skills to help them determine fabricated information from eye witness reports. The To'Resk in particular will be very good at determining real information from fabricated. As a mayor it can be useful to develop your social skills so you can pass on fabricated info to your guards if you cant acquire an eyewitness report without them getting suspicious. Think of this like Bush saying there were weapons of mass destruction in the Middle East. You could also use those great socialization skills to pass along fabricated information about fellow politicians and nobles as you play the game of houses.
Posted By Malais at 05:41 AM - Mon Nov 06 2017
My unsolicited 2 cents. Perhaps if we knew how information is propagated, and at what point the disguise/deviant tree intersects and alters that flow folks wouldn’t bring this up every other week.
I appreciate the explaination but for example. If an NPC sees me murder someone that NPC has a piece of information that implicates me in the murder. If I in turn kill him leaving no witness how does the information propagate?
I would assume some evidence would be left at the scene but if I spend points on deviant skills such as a disguise and have a decent one at what point would I be able to murder NPCs without repercussions?
Again very nice explaination just still a lot of unknowns/misconceptions surrounding this. And given the general opinion of games like Rust (never played it myself) where greifers seem to run wild leads folks to have concerns dropping hundreds on a game where it’s possible to circumvent the system by design.
I personally am looking forward to the challenge having to outsmart anyone and everyone but even I am concerned I will need to log off inside my personal fortress with (as Caspian used in a DJ) a fortified room with no windows and a single door guarded by multiple guards just not to log into a dead character each day.
And yes it’s a necro thread but it is something that gets brought up a lot.
I guess that by killing them still couldn't remove the memory from their head and they will still remember it when they are revived.
In real life some people get kill because they see what they shouldn't but it is different in the world that they don't really forget the killer name just because their character got kill by them in the game.
Plan to be just an explorer and trader, will most likely be Jenoan in fourth kingdom of OCE server
Posted By Solarity at 02:41 AM - Mon Nov 06 2017
I guess that by killing them still couldn't remove the memory from their head and they will still remember it when they are revived.
In real life some people get kill because they see what they shouldn't but it is different in the world that they don't really forget the killer name just because their character got kill by them in the game.
Except for the following.
NPCs suffer instant permadeath when killed, that is they are gone forever.
If you kill NPCs there is no memory because they currently do not revive. As I understand it there is a lore based reason why players have souls and thus can revive and NPCs do not.
So even if you have a couple guards watching your stash in the woods if the thief kills them both no witnesses. Only thing pointing to who did it would be the random evidence left behind. Which like I said above should be influenced based on the thief’s deviant skill levels.
And again this is by design. As stated very early in development SBS has said they want a certain percentage of deviants which are the bad guys for the white hats. However based on what has been released so far we have several apparent holes that could be exploited to allow folks to possibly destroy the game. Or so new comers seem to think.
Posted By Malais at 2:36 PM - Mon Nov 06 2017
Posted By Solarity at 02:41 AM - Mon Nov 06 2017
I guess that by killing them still couldn't remove the memory from their head and they will still remember it when they are revived.
In real life some people get kill because they see what they shouldn't but it is different in the world that they don't really forget the killer name just because their character got kill by them in the game.
Except for the following.
NPCs suffer instant permadeath when killed, that is they are gone forever.
If you kill NPCs there is no memory because they currently do not revive. As I understand it there is a lore based reason why players have souls and thus can revive and NPCs do not.
So even if you have a couple guards watching your stash in the woods if the thief kills them both no witnesses. Only thing pointing to who did it would be the random evidence left behind. Which like I said above should be influenced based on the thief’s deviant skill levels.
And again this is by design. As stated very early in development SBS has said they want a certain percentage of deviants which are the bad guys for the white hats. However based on what has been released so far we have several apparent holes that could be exploited to allow folks to possibly destroy the game. Or so new comers seem to think.
same source:
NPC permadeath will be changed in some way in the future, details unknown.
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Posted By Malais at 2:41 PM - Sun Nov 05 2017
My unsolicited 2 cents. Perhaps if we knew how information is propagated, and at what point the disguise/deviant tree intersects and alters that flow folks wouldn’t bring this up every other week.
I appreciate the explaination but for example. If an NPC sees me murder someone that NPC has a piece of information that implicates me in the murder. If I in turn kill him leaving no witness how does the information propagate?
I would assume some evidence would be left at the scene but if I spend points on deviant skills such as a disguise and have a decent one at what point would I be able to murder NPCs without repercussions?
I don't think you'll ever be able to murder someone in this game without possible repercussions. As you surmise, you'll leave behind evidence of a crime when you commit one. How much evidence you leave behind and how easily that evidence can be discovered might be a factor of skill, but the chance of leaving evidence behind will never be zero, nor will the chance of that evidence being discovered. Similarly, the murder of another player, at least if they have the life left to return to their body, will always generate an eye-witness.
NPCs exchange information whenever they're within proximity to each other. (how much they exchange and what they exchange can differ depending on numerous factors, of course) That can include their opinions of you, their accounts of what transpired, etc. Your best bet to getting away with murder will be to eliminate witnesses and being good enough that the crime scene is pretty clean, but even then an NPC going missing is itself an event likely to garner investigation of its own as the NPCs that depend on/value the missing NPC act on their awareness of its absence, so you'll never be entirely free of the potential of getting caught, or even just of being blamed for the attack and seeing your reputation take a hit.
The cost of getting caught is your lifespan (one way or another) and a reputation hit. The cost of your reputation taking a hit is an inability to engage with people and services in a settlement that don't appreciate your reputation. At first, that may not seem like much, but a career criminal, unless they take the painstaking work to avoid being implicated, is going to find themselves with no safe harbor, eventually.
That might not mean an end to griefing, but it does mean the effort required is a lot higher here than it is in other games.
Hope that helps! :)
@Snipehunter
Actually that is almost exactly what I was hoping for. Some of us had assumed there would be a web style network of information flow. Bob knows Jeff, and Jeff knows Pete. If Jeff goes missing aka dead bob and Pete would miss Jeff and if they are brave enough might go looking for him. Your response proves that theory.
Now my original assumption had always been even without evidence if a player was last seen with Jeff one or both Pete and bob may suspect the player was envolved and the players rep would take a hit.
Given the nature of CoE seems less about direct confrontation and more about back handing someone via rumors and such I would assume if both bob and Pete start a rumor about the player killing Jeff at some point enough of the settlement might turn against the player that they decide to move on. Blacklisted as Caspian mentioned way back when.
Not exactly armed super guards but if things work out that way should be a deterrent to random pvp on those who don’t want to fight. Or random murders of NPCs. Hopefully if that gets added to the wiki or a sticky somewhere new folks won’t be as put off by the whole open world pvp mechanics.
You will never atop greifers but the whole concept of making it difficult to play is nice.
Now there will always be bandit safe havens (hidden, fully pc towns) the disadvantage to them is of the authorities find it the army will be sent in to raise it to the ground. This adds to the story and also allows for nice big PvP battles. It also makes professions like imperial scout and bounty hunter a lot more viable and interesting to play.
Only question left to ask how long will greifers keep rebuilding their towns in new locations before they get fed up and leave or change to a valid member of society...
Criminality will not always be something based on pure trolling/grieffing.
Every figure of power need someone to do their dirty work. Every country need spies and agents to politically destabilize their rivals.
The system as it appears to work seems pretty fine, giving space and meaning for many play styles.
Posted By DavanOrdanska at 10:05 AM - Tue Nov 07 2017
You will never atop greifers but the whole concept of making it difficult to play is nice.
Now there will always be bandit safe havens (hidden, fully pc towns) the disadvantage to them is of the authorities find it the army will be sent in to raise it to the ground. This adds to the story and also allows for nice big PvP battles. It also makes professions like imperial scout and bounty hunter a lot more viable and interesting to play.
Only question left to ask how long will greifers keep rebuilding their towns in new locations before they get fed up and leave or change to a valid member of society...
I dont think you can just build up a new town in a new place just like that in CoE... that'll take much more time than most griefers are willing to take. And its not trolls and griefers anymore, if they actually are just criminals, part of the game and people that create story.
Friend Code: 30EF47
