COMMUNITY - FORUMS - GENERAL DISCUSSION
[Sticky] Pre-Alpha Advanced Traversal Mechanics Gameplay Video

Greetings friends,

The game team has been working on perfecting the advanced traversal mechanics lately. We are getting preeeeeetty close to being able to get the playable version of this into the hands of our Alpha 1 backers. Below is a sneak peak of some of that gameplay.

This is currently being developed in our Prelyria art style, which is a low-poly style that is a lot like greyboxing--if you're familiar with the term--only prettier. Because it's not just boxes and global lighting, it's allowing our art team to explore mood and ambiance, as well as experiment with lighting for organic, indoor spaces. Once we've tested the mechanics and are happy with them, the team can worry about amping it up to the full-fidelity Chronicles of Elyria art style. It's a "Measure Twice, Cut Once" kind of process!

This environment is part of a cave system that The Waerd have carved out and turned into a testing ground. You may have read about it recently!

Stay shiny!

Vye


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3/10/2020 5:14:28 AM #106

<.< >.> Yes it is........


3/10/2020 2:40:41 PM #107

Wasn't the mine demo at pax like ~3-4 years ago an obstacle course but with combat and the non low poly graphics? Honestly seems like a step backwards from that one those years ago.


I don't know anymore.

3/10/2020 3:08:08 PM #108

Posted By Jormongandr at 12:04 PM - Sat Mar 07 2020

sliding is faster if you time it right.

Isnt rolling forward a more sensible thing to do than scraping your backside over and over again ?

sliding on your back isnt realistic at all compared to even just diving forward or performing a diving roll. Those last two things are doable. I dont see how sliding on concrete is doable. maybe on grass it is. but atleast diving rolls are doable on any surface, and regardless of how slipper smooth silky your pants are...

I just feel bad for the characters ass, makes me cringe every time I see her slide. please change.


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3/10/2020 3:40:36 PM #109

Posted By HerbLord at 10:08 AM - Tue Mar 10 2020

Posted By Jormongandr at 12:04 PM - Sat Mar 07 2020

sliding is faster if you time it right.

Isnt rolling forward a more sensible thing to do than scraping your backside over and over again ?

sliding on your back isnt realistic at all compared to even just diving forward or performing a diving roll. Those last two things are doable. I dont see how sliding on concrete is doable. maybe on grass it is. but atleast diving rolls are doable on any surface, and regardless of how slipper smooth silky your pants are...

I just feel bad for the characters ass, makes me cringe every time I see her slide. please change.

I think I agree with this... something like a dive forward into a roll seems more practical and instinctual. I can still see some merit in sliding, though, as it seems like the game will mostly be played on grass fields or dirt fields like you might see at a baseball game, where sliding like that is practical.

On another note, are there evasive actions such as double-tapping movement keys to evade? I would expect that sliding and wall walking might be executed with the Shift key as seen in the video, but that still leaves room for evasion controls like double-tapping movement keys. I would expect that double-tapping W would allow me to dive forward into a roll, S might roll backwards, and A/D would dodge roll to the side. It seems like there should be room for both sliding and an action like a forward dive into a roll.

Now going off on a tangent, what would be even better is if we could exchange evasion techniques so that maybe with heavy plate armor you do a slower side-step (think Lancer in Monster Hunter), but with lighter armor you're able to dodge roll.


3/10/2020 5:07:12 PM #110

Posted By HerbLord at 08:08 AM - Tue Mar 10 2020

Posted By Jormongandr at 12:04 PM - Sat Mar 07 2020

sliding is faster if you time it right.

Isnt rolling forward a more sensible thing to do than scraping your backside over and over again ?

sliding on your back isnt realistic at all compared to even just diving forward or performing a diving roll. Those last two things are doable. I dont see how sliding on concrete is doable. maybe on grass it is. but atleast diving rolls are doable on any surface, and regardless of how slipper smooth silky your pants are...

I just feel bad for the characters ass, makes me cringe every time I see her slide. please change. Elyrians know how to craft some sturdy adventuring pants ;)

Dive rolling is in the game, currently you dive roll through a hole or over obstacles that are roughly hip height. ~2:35

The "slide tackle" or "baseball slide" is roughly reserved for sliding underneath things quickly. You can choose to crouch walk slowly or get up some speed and if you time it right, hit the gap as you slide through saving some time.

A dive rolling has a natural arc to it and diving down into a low crouch-able space usually leads to an impact at the entrance, plus it doesn't give us the distance or momentum that a slide can provide. Throwing a shoulder onto the ground and rolling across your spine can be pretty painful and is a good way to injure your neck and shoulders, but hey... games, do it all the time so, meh. I agree it can look cool tho and if we ever do add dark souls rolling you might get your wish ;) We've had combat dodge roll in the past, it might make a return?

It's a little difficult to see from behind the character, especially when they slide down a hill, (right now the character doesn't orient to the slope, we need to change that, ha).

When they slide, they don't slide on their back as much as they slide on their footware, hip and leg, like soccer and baseball players do. If I could post some video of it from the side, it would be more clear but I can't.

I've done it many times myself (soccer for 18 years, baseball for 7) and as long as you do it right or wear a little padding (sliding shorts) you're no worse for wear. Your legs form a number 4 with one leg tucked under your butt, taking the brunt of the friction and force and the other out in front.

As for the obstacles and timing, you can choose to crouch walk slowly or get up some speed and time it right to hit the gap as you slide through.

Currently in our system there is a probe out in front of your character checking to see what is coming up when it hits something that meets the requirements and you're sprinting it preforms the dive roll over that obstacle or through the hole. That system and the rules that govern it are much more advanced then what you pick up in the marketplace. It's part of a predictive system that helps us navigate the world and lets the character start to react to things before their capsule smacks into it.

To explain that a little better, humans see something coming and start to react to it. If you're running up to something, you start to reach out and position your limbs for impact long before your torso slams into it. Waiting until the player to impact before they react is a reactionary system not a predictive system. Reactionary systems are fairly cheap computationally but they aren't probing the world out in front of the character.

Reactionary systems are basically like sightless creatures running full tilt into things waiting until they slam into it and then they react. Rather than jumping up onto a low edge and vaulting over, they slam into it and then figure out a way to get over it. Reactionary systems are a little lighter computationally speaking, but predictive systems really enable us to do a lot of great and interesting things that will look and feel more natural, as we dial in those systems and build out the sub-systems.

Right now we have a mix of predictive and reactionary and it will probably stay that way for certain actions because we do need to keep in mind all of the other things that the players machines will be tasked with doing.


3/10/2020 5:25:46 PM #111

Posted By Jormongandr at 10:37 PM - Tue Mar 10 2020

Posted By HerbLord at 08:08 AM - Tue Mar 10 2020

Posted By Jormongandr at 12:04 PM - Sat Mar 07 2020

sliding is faster if you time it right.

Isnt rolling forward a more sensible thing to do than scraping your backside over and over again ?

sliding on your back isnt realistic at all compared to even just diving forward or performing a diving roll. Those last two things are doable. I dont see how sliding on concrete is doable. maybe on grass it is. but atleast diving rolls are doable on any surface, and regardless of how slipper smooth silky your pants are...

I just feel bad for the characters ass, makes me cringe every time I see her slide. please change. Elyrians know how to craft some sturdy adventuring pants ;)

Dive rolling is in the game, currently you dive roll through a hole or over obstacles that are roughly hip height. ~2:35

The "slide tackle" or "baseball slide" is roughly reserved for sliding underneath things quickly. You can choose to crouch walk slowly or get up some speed and if you time it right, hit the gap as you slide through saving some time.

A dive rolling has a natural arc to it and diving down into a low crouch-able space usually leads to an impact at the entrance, plus it doesn't give us the distance or momentum that a slide can provide. Throwing a shoulder onto the ground and rolling across your spine can be pretty painful and is a good way to injure your neck and shoulders. I agree it can look cool tho and if we ever do add dark souls rolling you might get your wish ;)

It's a little difficult to see from behind the character, especially when they slide down a hill, (right now the character doesn't orient to the slope, we need to change that, ha).

When they slide, they don't slide on their back as much as they slide on their footware, hip and leg, like soccer and baseball players do. If I could post some video of it from the side, it would be more clear but I can't.

I've done it many times myself (soccer for 18 years, baseball for 7) and as long as you do it right or wear a little padding (sliding shorts) you're no worse for wear. Your legs form a number 4 with one leg tucked under your butt, taking the brunt of the friction and force and the other out in front.

As for the obstacles and timing, you can choose to crouch walk slowly or get up some speed and time it right to hit the gap as you slide through.

Currently in our system there is a probe out in front of your character checking to see what is coming up when it hits something that meets the requirements and you're sprinting it preforms the dive roll over that obstacle or through the hole. That system and the rules that govern it are much more advanced then what you pick up in the marketplace. It's part of a predictive system that helps us navigate the world and lets the character start to react to things before their capsule smacks into it.

To explain that a little better, humans see something coming and start to react to it. If you're running up to something, you start to reach out and position your limbs for impact long before your torso slams into it. Waiting until the player to impact before they react is a reactionary system not a predictive system. Reactionary systems are fairly cheap computationally but they aren't probing the world out in front of the character.

Reactionary systems are basically like sightless creatures running full tilt into things waiting until they slam into it and then they react. Rather than jumping up onto a low edge and vaulting over, they slam into it and then figure out a way to get over it. Reactionary systems are a little lighter computationally speaking, but predictive systems really enable us to do a lot of great and interesting things that will look and feel more natural, as we dial in those systems and build out the sub-systems.

Right now we have a mix of predictive and reactionary and it will probably stay that way for certain actions because we do need to keep in mind all of the other things that the players machines will be tasked with doing.

Ok youve sold me on it.. and the part about the probe infront of the character aiding in a predictive system, if i understood it correctly, is also cool...

sounds like (eventually) if I were to make my character sprint straight into a fence, this system will make it look like the character braced for impact or put their hands on top of the fence but didnt jump over ?

If so... it sounds cool as heck.


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3/10/2020 7:42:50 PM #112

I love that this video is about a single player's motion. What is a multiplayer world and how does it compare to a single-player world? Interestingly, almost nothing. For example, if only one person was logged into a multiplayer world, it would actually just be a single-player world. The "multi" aspect of the world is merely being able to have multiple characters logged into it and interacting with each other. In CoE, since every character has the potential to be indistinguishable from npcs, the only real difference is chatting and being logged in. There will be other things that need to be fine-tuned, like lag during pvp.. but, again, if only one player was logged in then that same pvp fight would be pve. So, I love that they are working on single-player tests first.

After reading Jormongandr's post, it seems that it's a predictive system from the torso's perspective but is actually a reactive system from the probe's perspective. The probe runs into it and then the torso reacts appropriately.


3/10/2020 9:01:14 PM #113

After reading Jormongandr's post, it sounds like the standard implementation of what most developers have referred to as "Heroic Movement," which is good to hear. Its a fairly new concept that hasn't been implemented in very many online games yet, at least as far as I know.

I am very disappointed to hear that there isn't currently any dodge roll type ability, though. I'd like to know how else dodging is planned to be implemented, because as far as I know, a chance for an automatic dodge is really the only other option. How else would you dodge? You cannot not have dodging...


3/10/2020 9:35:56 PM #114

Posted By Kiluvian at 2:01 PM - Tue Mar 10 2020

After reading Jormongandr's post, it sounds like the standard implementation of what most developers have referred to as "Heroic Movement," which is good to hear. Its a fairly new concept that hasn't been implemented in very many online games yet, at least as far as I know.

I am very disappointed to hear that there isn't currently any dodge roll type ability, though. I'd like to know how else dodging is planned to be implemented, because as far as I know, a chance for an automatic dodge is really the only other option. How else would you dodge? You cannot not have dodging...

We currently have dodging when you're in combat, it has been in a roll format and as hops and slides but that all depends on the combat style that you choose.

We haven't added dodge to standard locomotion or traversal. It's an interesting idea allowing dodge outside of combat. It could come in handy. I'll bring it up with the team and see what they think.


3/10/2020 9:44:57 PM #115

why do there have to be dodge rolls in all mmos? those are stupid. step aside, if you dont want to get hit, thats what dodging should be. jumping around like in so many games simply should take too much stamina to be worth it, especially while wearing armor.


Friend Code: 30EF47

3/10/2020 9:56:40 PM #116

why is there an inside and outside of combat? does that mean one needs to be "locked on" to do dodge movements?


3/10/2020 10:51:51 PM #117

Posted By Jormongandr at 2:35 PM - Tue Mar 10 2020

We haven't added dodge to standard locomotion or traversal. It's an interesting idea allowing dodge outside of combat. It could come in handy. I'll bring it up with the team and see what they think.

Yes, like dodging a falling boulder. It's not combat, but being able to dodge it would be nice.


3/10/2020 11:23:10 PM #118

Posted By Gromschlog at 2:44 PM - Tue Mar 10 2020

why do there have to be dodge rolls in all mmos? those are stupid. step aside, if you dont want to get hit, thats what dodging should be. jumping around like in so many games simply should take too much stamina to be worth it, especially while wearing armor.

It depends on the combat style, we have a bunch of different styles that will be in the game. You might have a young quick character that might focus on mobility in combat and forgoes using heavy gear in favor of dodging and avoiding attacks or using parry to create openings for an attack. You might have a big thick lumbering brute that eats damage for breakfast and can barely dodge.

Posted By Avastar at 2:56 PM - Tue Mar 10 2020

why is there an inside and outside of combat? does that mean one needs to be "locked on" to do dodge movements?

Currently you don't need to be locked on to dodge or attack. If you have your weapons out you can do either, it also has a consequence around NPCs they tend view that as a hostile act.

There are locking features and soft lock, but that might change or go away. It all really depends on what design whats to do when we shift gears and work on combat again.

Posted By Protey at 3:51 PM - Tue Mar 10 2020

Yes, like dodging a falling boulder. It's not combat, but being able to dodge it would be nice.

Ahh I see where you're going with that. nice ;)


3/11/2020 12:00:15 AM #119

i could see some forms of movement not being available when holding different weapons or wearing different equipment.

doing a combat roll with a rifle and mask carrier is one thing, but doing a combat roll with the addition of a 50lb rucksack.. no thx


3/11/2020 3:31:56 AM #120

Posted By Avastar at 8:00 PM - Tue Mar 10 2020

i could see some forms of movement not being available when holding different weapons or wearing different equipment.

doing a combat roll with a rifle and mask carrier is one thing, but doing a combat roll with the addition of a 50lb rucksack.. no thx

We will always remember torch swimming


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