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Open-world PvP excites me!

Don't you think that having open-world pvp makes pve that much cooler?! Being able to be safe despite the open world pvp? Designing and managing a settlement that is a safe haven, despite the griefers that want to ruin our crafters' fun?

That sounds like a wonderful challenge and a very deep sense of accomplishment when achieved!


1/25/2020 7:51:00 AM #16

Posted By Avastar at 12:57 AM - Sat Jan 25 2020

All have methods, whether it be logging off or some other invulnerable barrier, that allows a griefer to retreat to perfect safety, even if that means they empty their inventory into an invulnerable, or effectively so, storage container, such that even if they are killed there is zero risk of losing anything.

I can only assume he is talking about rust/ark etc, those type of games where your body is normally within some base. Very easily reachable. Where their loot is, well that's another question. I know in rust I hide it all over the place, rarely in my base.

I would expect CoE to be somewhat similar. In the regard that a raider will retreat back into their base. Which unless the opposite side has a big force themselves, they could be safe or they could be dead.

Going to be interesting if SBS can really pull off the balance or if the playerbase even cares. It could very easily turn into mad max with zero laws being followed.


1/25/2020 1:03:37 PM #17

In CoE, every CdG is filled with the risk of perma death. Getting lost, for whatever reason, on the astral plane means perma death. Even if it is an unknown new adventurer's first CdG, the character is at risk of not only losing everything but needing to use another spark, that costs $25+, to continue playing.


1/25/2020 1:35:42 PM #18

Posted By Avastar at 12:03 AM - Sun Jan 26 2020

In CoE, every CdG is filled with the risk of perma death. Getting lost, for whatever reason, on the astral plane means perma death. Even if it is an unknown new adventurer's first CdG, the character is at risk of not only losing everything but needing to use another spark, that costs $25+, to continue playing.

Why is it that even a fresh adventurer wouldn't be able to get back to their body? Or anyone for that matter? Only at the very end of the characters life, would anyone have the chance of not being able to get back. Someone would have to basically go afk to not get back to their body in time after their first dozen deaths.


1/27/2020 1:55:03 PM #19

Open world PvP? Two Questions! How many and what system.

Back in the days, Darkfall had a neat system that allowed them hundreds of hundreds of players fighting against each other without any lagg realtime! Why was that? Well they didn't use any true model for the player, the use of ressource was very important to the actual activity of PvP.

I imagine Pre-Alpha being able to hold several hundreds fighting each other as it as a low polygon world, yet what system is being looked at to implement and allow such grand battles.

Back in 2015 we once talked about this, maybe there was a new change? What do I know about the plans of the gods, I am merely a player, patiently waiting to finally enter Valhalla!

1/27/2020 2:31:14 PM #20

Posted By Gunnlang at 06:35 AM - Sat Jan 25 2020

Why is it that even a fresh adventurer wouldn't be able to get back to their body? Or anyone for that matter? Only at the very end of the characters life, would anyone have the chance of not being able to get back. Someone would have to basically go afk to not get back to their body in time after their first dozen deaths.

You answered your own question. The risk is always present for whatever reason and no matter how unlikely it is. It's been said that spirit remaining affects the visibility of the cord that guides the spirit walker back to their body. And age affects the time limit to get back to the body before perma death.

Who knows what exists on the astral plane, it's been said that there are obstacles and such that benefit from the help of planeswalkers, whatever that mean. I assume logging out while spirit walking, pauses the timer. The most astute spirit walker would likely log off and use discord magic to obtain any help from others to return to their body (ie: family near the body increases cord visibility).

Posted By MyrmexNamykos at 06:55 AM - Mon Jan 27 2020

Open world PvP? Two Questions! How many and what system.

due to hardware scaling, we already know that they are planning for 1200+ characters within a settlement that is smaller than 1 km^2. Combined with the server not sending character data to the client when the client's character does not have line of sight to other characters. However, for onscreen at the same time, i believe there was talk about having 100v100 (200 characters on screen.. such as on a flat 128 m^2 parcels maybe).

Back in the days, Darkfall had a neat system that allowed them hundreds of hundreds of players fighting against each other without any lagg realtime! Why was that? Well they didn't use any true model for the player, the use of ressource was very important to the actual activity of PvP.

I'm not familiar with Darkfall. I don't know if the 100v100 is 200 clients plus npcs or 200 characters, including clients and npcs. It's been said that arrows do not stay in the body and that, while diseases and such simulate the body having a brain and other anatomy, the body does not have modeled anatomy. I'd assume that tech is more advanced now than Darkfall (released 2009) and that CoE will utilize that tech.

I imagine Pre-Alpha being able to hold several hundreds fighting each other as it as a low polygon world, yet what system is being looked at to implement and allow such grand battles.

Client-side is one hurdle to large pvp combat mostly predicated upon the client's capabilities. The other, and more likely the bottleneck during Prelyria, is server-side, specifically server bandwidth and latency/tickrate (network, memory, cpu, database). Every client needs to receive info about every character, which means the server needs to compute that and send the appropriate data to all of them, and the ai server.

CoE is developing a SpatialOS-esque hardware scaling framework which is planned to smoothly and seamlessly bring more resources to areas that require them. I don't know if it will be implemented during Prelyria.

Back in 2015 we once talked about this, maybe there was a new change? What do I know about the plans of the gods, I am merely a player, patiently waiting to finally enter Valhalla!

Details about Religion / Gods has been a closely guarded secret. Perhaps we are meant to learn all of that in-game as we try to become members and leaders of religions. Perhaps a greater vampire or lich is the leader of the Waerd religion?


1/27/2020 3:56:54 PM #21

Posted By Avastar at 09:31 AM - Mon Jan 27 2020

Posted By Gunnlang at 06:35 AM - Sat Jan 25 2020

Why is it that even a fresh adventurer wouldn't be able to get back to their body? Or anyone for that matter? Only at the very end of the characters life, would anyone have the chance of not being able to get back. Someone would have to basically go afk to not get back to their body in time after their first dozen deaths.

You answered your own question. The risk is always present for whatever reason and no matter how unlikely it is.

Does it really matter though? When the risk is so low you have to afk for it to matter it's not really relevant. The CDG system is designed to where even if you died every day it's supposed to take months to where you actually fail the walk.

There are deterrents for "griefing" but the risk of CDG isn't really one of them unless they are nobility level with high cdg modifiers


I don't know anymore.

1/27/2020 4:16:41 PM #22

Posted By Deftly at 8:14 PM - Thu Jan 23 2020

I hope people will take the time to use bounty hunters and investigators. It most games when someone gets ganked they tell their circle and goes on about their business if nothing happens. I don't know if people would want to take the time to seek out and hire people to help them.

I could see them doing so if bandits are blocking off something or it's just consistent ganking but for random ambushes, I feel as though people would just let it go.

Hopefully the in-game NPC dialog mechanism will lead the griefed to report the attack on them. When a gather gets to town to sell up, the dialogues that open up should include options for it.

Thinking about it the same should be true even if you're talking to a player. That information that you were attacked needs to be passed on.

So I kind of feel the dialogue system we've seen in a previous shiny should also be used for player<->player interactions.

  • You may tell the town guard NPC of being attacked. player>NPC and the NPC reports to a PC Sheriff NPC>player

  • You might tell a PC crafter player>player and in turn they may report to an NPC responsible for issuing bounties; player>NPC, But the PC needs to have that nugget of information in order to relay to an NPC.

  • Even if the exchange is entirely player to player, the information needs to exist for a valid bounty token to be created. So having pre-set dialogues seems the way to go.

Of course, we'll still have the option for free type. But this type of thing I think will be used for many things relating to the information\gossip system.

Will it extend to things such as you've witnessed a neighbouring duchy feverishly building siege equipment, or an increase in Kannis Rabbit numbers or of a marriage you witnessed or you've seen magic\a talent used some place? I don't know, there will of course need to be some limitation.


[EU] The Town of Farwatch Selene (Hrothi) - Demalion/Dae Erath/Ash County - Masonry, Scouting/Cartography Animal Husbandry, Agriculture Smithing, Tailoring. Light RP, Casual & PvP Welcome.

1/28/2020 12:25:39 AM #23

Posted By Khazad at 10:41 AM - Thu Jan 23 2020

For sure. It's what makes Eve Online such a great game. The PVE activities fuel the PVP.

Fueling PVP.

So that's what I was doing when a gank squad would show up in the asteroid belt and catch me asleep in my recliner.

😾


You must all be quick to listen, slow to speak and slow to get angry. JAMES 1:19 NLT

1/28/2020 2:37:18 AM #24

Posted By ZeroCool at 09:16 AM - Mon Jan 27 2020

Will it extend to things such as you've witnessed a neighbouring duchy feverishly building siege equipment, or an increase in Kannis Rabbit numbers or of a marriage you witnessed or you've seen magic\a talent used some place? I don't know, there will of course need to be some limitation.

I found the following post by Snipe. It talks a bit about transferring knowledge between characters. Specifically, that it can be dragged to the chat window:

https://chroniclesofelyria.com/forum/topic/31701/shiny-day-sometimes-you-have-to-stop-and-take-stock?page=4#post352552


1/28/2020 4:56:22 PM #25

Posted By Melkar at 12:35 AM - Sat Jan 25 2020

The type of pvp CoE will have is what brought me in honestly.

Most other games base open world pvp on single groups or at most groups of like 25/50/100. Seeing as most duchies will have 10k pops to work with it really does present interesting prospects based on tribe makeups for different RTS type structures and organization to keep things infinitely interesting.

If you can accomplish that then you will still need investigators for outside groups to provide evidence for surrounding rulers to act on if they are even diplomatic to you or your cause.

Open world PvP is a huge part of what brought me in as well. Although it's usually handled pretty poorly. However, this is where souls, soul penalties and anti-griefer mechanics and nuances shine in CoE. It totally won me. The Open World PvP brought me in, and the soul mechanics sold me.

I'm also the same in that I think about the affects tribe populations and dynamics will have on strategy. Hell, even socializing and bloodlines. I really like the idea of complimenting your majority tribe with another minority tribe that has essentially the opposite attributes. And we can't ignore the effect the Dras will undoubtedly have on sustainability simply for existing. They eat garbage, can drink salt water and they're potentially very productive. Excellent for boosting sustainability.

It's all an interesting system isn't it? You've got the tribe dynamics which alter so much, settlement to settlement, domain to domain. And then you have the bounty hunters and investigators that fill an essential niche in multiplayer. They're that small but incredibly substantive player base that links it all together. I sincerely hope the bounty hunters and investigators of Elyria have substantial advantages over meta PKing so they're somewhat intimidating.


"If we wait until we are ready, we'll be waiting for the rest of our lives..." code: CD83B4

1/28/2020 5:17:33 PM #26

There was an very interesting conversation i was involved in on discord.

It begins here.

In sum:

  • There are obstacles of some sort that a spirit walker (player that was CdGd) can more easily overcome when accompanied by a planeswalker.
  • The planeswalker might spawn into the astral plane at the body and have visible cords that lead to the body and to the spirit walker.
  • Not getting back to one's body before running out of time (available time is determined by character age) causes permadeath.
  • Perhaps there are beings that exist in the astral plane that sniff out spirit walkers with lots of spirit remaining (very visible cords that link the walker with their body).
  • Such beings would be an obstacle for the walker, causing them to not be able to run in a straight line back to their body.
  • Such beings would also cause an additional layer of fear to be added to being CdGd even for the very first time.

1/28/2020 5:26:16 PM #27

redacted