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All about gliders | Petition & Discussion

Petition rules

This petition is pretty simple:

  • If you don't want gliders to be accessible at start upvote this post
  • If you do want gliders to be accessible at start downvote this post

In the following I will offer my thoughts on how gliders can eventually be incorporated without heavily impacting the whole world.

Before I will go into the potential impact such a technology has, let's first take a look at how to lessen the impact of gliders

On gently introducing gliders to Elyria

Even if the technology is known somewhere it doesn't have to be accessible everywhere or easily obtainable or usable by everyone.

Measures package 1 – Gliders as a Kypiq-only technology

Limiting the first set of gliders buildable to Kypiq would not only be a good fit lore wise. It further would ensure the technology takes at least a little time to spread throughout the continent.

The most impactful decision would be to only allow Kypiqs to actually use gliders ruling the technology is not advanced enough to transport heavier folks.

An even more strict ruling could be to have them only operate without strong winds and say these conditions can generally only be found within forests, limiting them to a biome at first. These last two points are also part of the next package of measures.

Summary package 1: Limiting gliders to Kypiq inherently limits how much of them we will actually see. It still leaves the option open to make them more easily accessible and more widely usable as the technology advances.

Measures package 2 – Gliders as a little developed, little understood technology

If we assume gliders are a technology in its infancy we can let that play out in multiple ways.

As mentioned earlier we can limit who can use gliders and where you can use gliders at first. Further, we can have building gliders require a very high level of craftsmanship. If the level required is set high enough then only a handful of NPCs will have the skill needed as it might take more than one lifetime for players to sufficiently master the craft.

We can expand on this by requiring expert craftsmanship in multiple disciplines. Sure, building a glider can be hard. But maybe even building the components of a glider is hard. Maybe the material covering the wings needs very careful treatment, creating a very thin and still durable cloth.

We can require exotic materials e.g. spider silk or alchemical components for a special varnish to let that thing fly.

Lastly, the first set of gliders might have very bad gliding ability, i.e. the ratio of distance travelled to height lost is very low.

Summary package 2: The measures in package 2 serve the following purposes:

  • to ensure mass production isn't feasible
  • to ensure a very high price for gliders and
  • to limit the use cases for gliders

But why are gliders "bad"?

Gliders are not bad!

But... having gliders potentially has a lot of implications that might not be desirable for the game world right away.

Parcel delivery

Gliders have the potential to cover great distances very fast. While this might not work the way the company zipline uses glider drones to deliver medical supplies in africa it's very likely we'd have distribution centers near every mountain to allow for quick deliveries to the surrounding area.

Very cool, but do we want that from day 1?

The airfoes – military gliders

Gliders offer unique possibilities in warfare. Your towering defenses and walls? Enemies just fly other it.

If gliders are very capable and easily accessible siege warfare is not necessary. It's much easier to either use a mountain in the vicinity or build a high tower somewhere near the settlement you are trying to invade and just fly in directly.

Do we really want to be required to build air defenses on day 1?

The perfect getaway

If gliders are ubiquitous thieves won't need to sneak out. They will simply climb the highest building they can find and fly out.

Aaaand their gone.


TBD, Count of The Metheglin Meadows in Iyandolin, 🌷Kingdom of Al-Khezam 🌷, Selene

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9/19/2019 5:18:49 PM #31

Posted By Beathan at 12:32 PM - Thu Sep 19 2019

I do not want gliders. If we do have gliders, I hope we immediately have anti-glider netting as something we can implement to our defenses.

Also, if we do have gliders, will we also have simulated air currents and winds that affect them? If so, that seems like a whole new layer of simulated complexity. I doubt we will, but that just makes gliders even more annoying.

Finally, if we do have gliders, I hope the material components to them are both rare and expensive. They should require very lightweight but very strong structural components and very lightweight passenger burden (maybe limited to a small, naked kypiq). And they should be subject to catastrophic failure in flight leading to a fall from a great height. Keeping to the tech level of the game, if we must have gliders, please make them like the ones used by Daedalus and Icarus (with half the people who use them dying each flight).

I know its late in the day for it, but perhaps COE could consider a branching tree for the last three items, in which people can choose what they want their purchases to count toward. Also maybe allow the purchase price to count negatively to one of those if someone really doesn't want it.

I don't think making gliders trash to use is the right move. Don't punish the item because they choose to give it to us at the wrong time. Giving thousands of dollars to unlock something shitty feels like a scumbag move. I agree with making the materials rare but it failing 50% of the time and it being limited to a race. No thanks.

9/19/2019 5:26:31 PM #32

Posted By Deftly at 10:18 AM - Thu Sep 19 2019

Posted By Beathan at 12:32 PM - Thu Sep 19 2019

I do not want gliders. If we do have gliders, I hope we immediately have anti-glider netting as something we can implement to our defenses.

Also, if we do have gliders, will we also have simulated air currents and winds that affect them? If so, that seems like a whole new layer of simulated complexity. I doubt we will, but that just makes gliders even more annoying.

Finally, if we do have gliders, I hope the material components to them are both rare and expensive. They should require very lightweight but very strong structural components and very lightweight passenger burden (maybe limited to a small, naked kypiq). And they should be subject to catastrophic failure in flight leading to a fall from a great height. Keeping to the tech level of the game, if we must have gliders, please make them like the ones used by Daedalus and Icarus (with half the people who use them dying each flight).

I know its late in the day for it, but perhaps COE could consider a branching tree for the last three items, in which people can choose what they want their purchases to count toward. Also maybe allow the purchase price to count negatively to one of those if someone really doesn't want it.

I don't think making gliders trash to use is the right move. Don't punish the item because they choose to give it to us at the wrong time. Giving thousands of dollars to unlock something shitty feels like a scumbag move. I agree with making the materials rare but it failing 50% of the time and it being limited to a race. No thanks.

But it is the first step on a tech tree. That is not trash. That is a jumpstart. I think it is a bad jumpstart. I would much rather be able to put my money down negatively to REDUCE the chance we get gliders (and I know others who feel that way about cannibalism). Having gliders makes me less likely to spend anything while it is pending.


Count of Frostale, in the Duchy of Fioralba, in the Kingdom of Ashland, by the Grace of Haven. The above opinions are mine alone and do not reflect those of my Kingdom or Duchy.

https://chroniclesofelyria.com/forum/topic/17117/naw-the-duchy-of-fioralba https://chroniclesofelyria.com/forum/topic/14124/naw-kingdom-of-ashland https://chroniclesofelyria.com/forum/topic/30605/of-contracts-and-commerce-a-tldnr-post https://chroniclesofelyria.com/forum/topic/31835/on-taxes-rents-and-ancestral-lands

9/19/2019 5:27:33 PM #33

Since it’s lookijg like we’ll have gliders at launch, perhaps it would be more productive to discuss potential downsides/drawbacks as suggested in the OP?

Personally, I’m excited by what looks like a new research opportunity in parachutes. :-P

9/19/2019 5:38:22 PM #34

Posted By Huntsmaster at 10:27 AM - Thu Sep 19 2019

Since it’s lookijg like we’ll have gliders at launch, perhaps it would be more productive to discuss potential downsides/drawbacks as suggested in the OP?

Personally, I’m excited by what looks like a new research opportunity in parachutes. :-P

I hope we will be able to train our falcons to selectively attack the weak points in a glider.


Count of Frostale, in the Duchy of Fioralba, in the Kingdom of Ashland, by the Grace of Haven. The above opinions are mine alone and do not reflect those of my Kingdom or Duchy.

https://chroniclesofelyria.com/forum/topic/17117/naw-the-duchy-of-fioralba https://chroniclesofelyria.com/forum/topic/14124/naw-kingdom-of-ashland https://chroniclesofelyria.com/forum/topic/30605/of-contracts-and-commerce-a-tldnr-post https://chroniclesofelyria.com/forum/topic/31835/on-taxes-rents-and-ancestral-lands

9/19/2019 6:23:56 PM #35

Perhaps the next stretch goal would be pitch working so we can make fire arrows ...

9/19/2019 6:28:32 PM #36

I’m not opposed to gliders being in the game but I feel launch is too early for them to be introduced - I think it takes away from some of the research aspects of the game and I’m worried that it may mean that unpowered flight is commonplace around the 5 year mark if SbS isn’t careful about how they feed us techs.

More I’m worried about the precedent this sets - will we get access to other techs through funding goals? Ships for 500k? Gunnery for a million? Allowing us to buy our way up the tech tree takes away research and discovery from players, something I think is a shame.


Coming Soon(tm)

9/19/2019 7:47:09 PM #37

Posted By Huntsmaster at 8:27 PM - Thu Sep 19 2019

Since it’s lookijg like we’ll have gliders at launch, perhaps it would be more productive to discuss potential downsides/drawbacks as suggested in the OP?

Personally, I’m excited by what looks like a new research opportunity in parachutes. :-P

Or, if the devs see that the community is generally against having gliders at launch we can have that stretch goal maybe changed to something else? please

9/19/2019 8:10:28 PM #38

Posted By Abigor at 12:47 PM - Thu Sep 19 2019

Posted By Huntsmaster at 8:27 PM - Thu Sep 19 2019

Since it’s lookijg like we’ll have gliders at launch, perhaps it would be more productive to discuss potential downsides/drawbacks as suggested in the OP?

Personally, I’m excited by what looks like a new research opportunity in parachutes. :-P

Or, if the devs see that the community is generally against having gliders at launch we can have that stretch goal maybe changed to something else? please

Yeah. Let's not have gliders -- but pet sugar gliders. They could just change the picture and call it good.


Count of Frostale, in the Duchy of Fioralba, in the Kingdom of Ashland, by the Grace of Haven. The above opinions are mine alone and do not reflect those of my Kingdom or Duchy.

https://chroniclesofelyria.com/forum/topic/17117/naw-the-duchy-of-fioralba https://chroniclesofelyria.com/forum/topic/14124/naw-kingdom-of-ashland https://chroniclesofelyria.com/forum/topic/30605/of-contracts-and-commerce-a-tldnr-post https://chroniclesofelyria.com/forum/topic/31835/on-taxes-rents-and-ancestral-lands

9/19/2019 9:54:26 PM #39

I think there is a fundamental misunderstanding about what a technology unlock means. The feature will available, but you still would have to research all of the levels of that tech tree in order to build it. It could still take years before anyone discovered all of the necessary prerequisites to make them.

Edit: I didn't read the full news post. On the stretch goal bar, it doesn't mention the kits, and unlike the battle cats, it doesn't seem to have a size restriction. I suggest they add the small size limit to the kit once it hits the store.


9/20/2019 12:07:02 AM #40

Posted By ForestGuardian at 11:54 PM - Thu Sep 19 2019

I think there is a fundamental misunderstanding about what a technology unlock means. The feature will available, but you still would have to research all of the levels of that tech tree in order to build it. It could still take years before anyone discovered all of the necessary prerequisites to make them.

$280k - Gliders! - Glider technology is added to the game and available at launch. Glider Kit added to the store for the remainder of the promotion.

So no, it doesn’t just unlock the possibility to research the technology, but makes it available at launch and you can buy the kit to build them right away at the start.

I’m biased, since the very purpose of the HIF was to discover flight and not just improve upon it and I certainly feel like this stretch goal is taking away too much in regards to achievements. While I’m clear on probably not having the best chance at discovering it first, I wouldn’t have minded participating in the race anyways.

So I don’t like that particular stretch goal at all and personally would prefer if it was removed. However, I can cope and adapt to it, should it stay in and be reached.


9/20/2019 12:27:41 AM #41

Just my two cents, but if you wanted to do this as a poll you might want to do upvote is you want gliders, downvote is you don't want gliders.

Some people might instinctively think that upvote is yes, downvote is no ;)


Lord Death

9/20/2019 12:29:07 AM #42

Posted By Death at 6:27 PM - Thu Sep 19 2019

Just my two cents, but if you wanted to do this as a poll you might want to do upvote is you want gliders, downvote is you don't want gliders.

Some people might instinctively think that upvote is yes, downvote is no ;)

Thats his trick you see. He will trick everyone and then change it later (;


9/20/2019 12:56:34 AM #43

I motion for a vote of no confidence in the Vice Chancellor, this is absolutely farcical! And the Chamber of Gentry has better things to do with its time!

Harumph!


9/20/2019 3:48:57 AM #44

Should start a new one, allot of people gave it a thumbs up because they like the post not because they wanted the gliders


9/20/2019 3:55:15 AM #45

Or don’t do one on the forums at all seeing as the voting system doesn’t say anything 🤔


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