Well I guess you are overestimating the usage of the first gliders we might get as I would not expect that you will be able to cover great distances very fast as you described it. ;)

The first version might be more comparable to a parachute...e.g. for each meter you fly forward you are “falling” 2 or 3m down. I would see the gliders as a relative fast way to come down from trees, cliffs or buildings without opening others a possibility reach the spot you are currently at. For example if you would instead use a ladder or rope others might use this to climb up as once you are down you cannot remove the possibility to climb up from the ground.

With research you might be able to raise the flight duration and maybe even one day we might see some kind of airplane but at the beginning I would see the gliders just as something to relative safely falling down from a great height.

I'm of two minds - either everyone should get them or no one as they're potentially ridiculously good. Mainly no one to be honest as it just doesn't seem to fit the world description.

I was going to make a thread on this. I find it weird they are throwing tech at us, that I'm sure they said wouldn't happen for a few years. If my memory serves me, gliders were shown off years back. Yet basically nothing was explained/shared of them. As said, because they wouldn't be a starting tech or anything close to it.

What Schattenwandrer maybe right. We still know next to nothing of them. Maybe it's really some basic form, that can't be used to jump off a high target and go super long distances. I was thinking of using it, while jumping off some mountain/hill and crossing a county or two. Which imo, that's just shouldn't be a starting tech. Yet maybe it's so basic that doing that, gives me an stupid death.

The main concern I get from them teasing us with gliders, isn't really the gliders itself. It's more what will they release to us in some other event. I truly love the idea of working towards things. By the game launches, just seems like a ton of things we would had to research in game, have been taken from us.

We really need SBS to come in here and give an answer. Or we really will just go in circles.

I can't gauge whether the majority of the community is in favor of having gliders at day 1. But I noticed many people voicing their concerncs as soon as the saw it as a milestone reward. It might be too late to put the genie back in the bottle but I believe SBS should think long and hard about how to implement gliders and consider the many options on the table if they do.

There are many ways to incorporate gliders into Elyria without leading to the possible consequences I have described. Personally I could see gliders as a Kypiq gimmick allowing them (and maybe visitors) to fly from one Ironwood tree to the next without requiring bridges. The trees are likely high enough to make this work even if gliders were just devices capable of "controlled slightly directed falling".

Another option to consider is having a piloting skill and requiring correctly reacting to visual and auditory cues to prevent crashing. Maybe it's getting harder the longer you fly? This is in line with having player skill as an important cornerstone in CoE and the risk of failure serves as a deterrent against widespread or long range use.

Couple that with making gliders expensive and you have one possible compromise between allowing something cool and not throwing everything of balance.

When it comes to the glider question, I feel like, while it would probably be more like the gliders described by Schattenwandrer, even that seems like it would be slightly off. That would render scaffolding useless for example, plus you have to actively go around with it, I see few actual situations where you would be able to use this device.

So in my eyes it comes down to the gliders either being too OP early on, or basically be a redundant item that didn't need to be implemented.

I'm happy to have gliders if I could make use of them but my biome is flat terrain, there is no high point to glide down from. Useless tech.

Well, I suppose a lot of it has to do with how easily they will be transported. I mean, look at this thing!

It's not like they are handing them out to everyone, just that the tech will exist.

Maybe some military will get their hands on the mats and crafters to make a bunch. They will still have to train their soldiers in how to use them and land without crashing.

As for thieves making a getaway, only if they set up the glider at the exit point ahead of time, and if so, props to them on a well executed plan.

They are already going to have parkour to climb and tumble past defenses.

The nay-sayers just sound so afraid of "what if" that they can't enjoy themselves. There is magic in the game through Talents, even if they are rare, and gliders are giving you anxiety?

Okay so here are my 2 cents for this:

I think the biggest issue with misunderstanding how gliders can work in CoE is comparison with other games that introduced them, for example Archeage or Atlas. And while I do not imply I know everything myself, here's what I assume based on what we know of CoE:

1 - What you see is what you get. Meaning if you have a glider with you, it won't be in your pocket or inventory, you will need to carry it with you and if you try to make some sort of surprise attack from skies, you will either have to ditch it on the way back or again, carry it with you back that will limit your mobility and capacity.

2 - Weight matters, while I touched upon it in my fist thought, the glider may be big and heavy-ish to simply run around with it. it also matter what you wear, I don't expect full plated knights to use them.

All that said, it is the topic of glider being "gamebreaking", if we talk about glider technology being available at the start...it's still something I would like to be discovered later on, I understand your point where knowing how to do it doesn't mean you can do it, but still, it's not something I would like to see known. You can also say the same about sea travel - devs can make ship technology available for deep sea travel, but it doesn't mean you can prepare for it due to not having resources and appropriate knowledge in other areas to freely cross the oceans.

Yeah I was sad to see the glider on the KS rewards as well :/

I might not trust SBS on giving dates, but I'm going to trust them on game design. If they think they can balance them out for the early game then I welcome the opportunity for more diversity in our gameplay experience. I'm sorry, but I really don't want to see arguments that are largely speculative and from a worst case point of view determine the framework we'll play within.

Please, no gliders in this game! Let this remain a low-fantasy world with "realistic" travel like originally envisioned! Gliders are too disruptive and won't fit into the CoE game concept at all! They will put a heavy imbalance to ground and sea travel.

Posted By ShadowTani at 9/19/2019 12:38:21 PM

I'm sorry, but I really don't want to see arguments that are largely speculative and from a worst case point of view determine the framework we'll play within.

What argument about a game with no available gameplay won't be speculative? At that point remove the forums. I would rather worst case than best case especially here because best case is it's jut another cool mechanic. It doesn't really make the game. So in a mechanic that won't make the game but could possibly break the game, best case scenario is pretty weak here.

Nothing like some Kypiq dive bombers bombing Supply lines :D

An interesting premise Takeda. I will admit I am rather mixed on the idea of gliders. Would I want one if they were in game - yes. However, I'd likely put it on display with comparisons to silhouettes of local flying creatures to assist anyone with archery experience in identifying such a tempting target. Lol, thanks SbS for finally giving me a potential reason to promote deviancy.

On the one hand there is the danger that SbS will do something out of character and make these unrealistically effective. While I was surprised to see there is not the possibility of a glider blueprint, in its present form I don't see it being more practical than a good horse for delivery or more effective than a good siege engine for getting over a wall (remember, if you are talking about flying troops over they can still be hit by archers, likely have limited areas to land safely, and will be isolated until they land in numbers).

On the other, there is the design as we see it now - large, awkward to move, and likely fragile. Getting one (let alone several) of these up a mountain steep enough to use as a long rang launch point would require some sort of pulley system and a really large clear path free of anything able to snag the glider's wings. Honestly, I have to wonder how easy that would be for a single person to lift and walk around with.

As for Kypiq being the ones to develop the tech, they are certainly of the right disposition. However, they live in an area of densely populated trees, the bane of any glider (even more than a hard hit to the ground, a hard hit in the air should wreak a glider).

Regarding measures package 2 - those are some choice ideas. Hopefully if SbS wasn't already thinking of them, they are now.

Posted By Takeda_Shinukage at 2:57 PM - Thu Sep 19 2019

What argument about a game with no available gameplay won't be speculative? At that point remove the forums. I would rather worst case than best case especially here because best case is it's jut another cool mechanic. It doesn't really make the game. So in a mechanic that won't make the game but could possibly break the game, best case scenario is pretty weak here.

I didn't say I'm taking a best case scenario point of view, I detest extremes; I said I trust the developers with designing the game. Which means if it turns out to be too great negatives I trust them to nerf it appropriately and give us the opportunity to research tools and countermeasures to deal with it.

Besides, it doesn't matter if it'll be now or in the future, we will face that hurdle at some point. CoE is a world simulation, thus stuff like new technology creating an imbalance will be appropriate. It's like how guns got first introduced in Asia where melee troops ended up getting massacred when going up against the rifle troops. I don't want this aspect nerfed. For someone with a tech focus this is the kind of challenge I'm seeking.