COMMUNITY - FORUMS - GENERAL DISCUSSION
Will laws allow for context?
+5

I will use 2 examples to explain this.

Homicide

Scenario 1- Someone or or a group comes up to a player and kills them with their sword killing them after knocking them out and going on with their business.

Scenario 2- Someone is ambushed by someone who is trying to kill them, so they fight back and kill them after the knockout to equalise the threat.

Scenario 3- Two players enter into a duel and one player kills the other as is the terms for their duel getting the other players stuff/money

Would the law be able to differentiate the 3 or would all get a murder bounty?

Theft

Scenario 1- Someone steals an animal and walks away.

Scenario 2- The person steals their property back.

Would the law be able to know the difference or would both cases be charged with Stealing bounty?


The Keshi family, is intend on bringing democracy and economic stability to Elyria.

8/15/2019 1:41:25 AM #1
+0

well of course none of us would know for sure but i would say that there is almost a 100% chance that scenario 2 of your homicide example would not be counted at a murder since the game would know that the other person initiated combat, games have been able to track stuff like that for years.

as for the duel example that really depends on whether or not there will be a dueling mechanic in game. practically all mmo's have them but it has never been mentioned as far as i know.

as for the stealing example i would imagine that since the item is flagged as stolen then stealing it back is not a crime but the crimes you commit along the way would be. so if you break into someones house and get back your item then you didn't steal but you did trespass.

its also worth noting that if someone says that they will attack you and then seem like their getting ready to attack you and you attack first then your the criminal. I mention this only because i feel like some idiots might actually think that the game will somehow know that the other person verbally instigated the fight. Sometimes i see people talking about game mechanics in COE as if the game will have nearly sentient AI running around.


8/15/2019 2:16:49 AM #2
+0

to elaborate further on stealing, some domains will allow you as the original owner to take back his items if they have proof ( getting proof is a whole nother topic I think). Some domains could say only stolen guards, sheriffs, military staff etc can retrieve stolen goods


8/15/2019 7:49:27 PM #3
+1

I'm gonna disagree with Steevo. This is a game, not a real life situation. Nearly all killing will be intentional, no accident on your part. Killing is killing is killing.

So in each of the scenarios listed for Homicide you could have just left after knocking them out. There's just as good a chance of them waking up and coming after you as there is of them having to spirit walk back after you murdered them and then chase after you. So any vindication you think you may have for killing them is just spite.

When the "victim" returns to life they should be able to get a bounty token issued against you. Keep in mind though that such an action does not need to be pursued. In that duel example, if you insist on dealing a killing blow instead of the loser just handing over their stuff, then they don't have to try to get that token or claim the bounty.

Also, a bounty just lets you capture a target. They still have to come before a judge for punishment to be dealt. This part of the mechanics is still hazy so not sure how that works out but context may play a role here.


8/15/2019 8:10:30 PM #4
+0

As we understand it, laws can allow for process -- and process can allow for context. That said, tyrants gonna tyrant.


Count of Frostale, in the Duchy of Fioralba, in the Kingdom of Ashland, by the Grace of Haven. The above opinions are mine alone and do not reflect those of my Kingdom or Duchy.

https://chroniclesofelyria.com/forum/topic/17117/naw-the-duchy-of-fioralba

https://chroniclesofelyria.com/forum/topic/14124/naw-kingdom-of-ashland

8/15/2019 9:44:24 PM #5
+0

@Ravenlute

I'm pretty sure they said somewhere if you hit too hard you can kill someone w/o a knock-out. Or if they are wounded badly they will just bleed to death while knocked out. Or if your blade is poisoned it may go through the knock out. So you have to use the specific "light" or "knockout" techniques they plan to add if you want to knock out which may end up getting you killed.


As far as the stealing mechanic. I don't think you can mechanically steal what is yours. I think the system tracks who the lawful owner is in the code and it doesn't switch that flag without the use of a contract.


Discord: Julius#7218

8/15/2019 9:57:58 PM #6
-1

Is it going to be ok to kill people who try to steal from you? can I assume they would kill me if they would steal from me? So, can I kill them?


6D242B

8/15/2019 10:00:51 PM #7
+0

Can I kill them if they aligned with someone who might steal from me or harm me or people I care about?

If this game goes live with me in it, I will be armed.


6D242B

8/15/2019 10:16:30 PM #8
+0

Posted By Nanyetah at 5:00 PM - Thu Aug 15 2019

Can I kill them if they aligned with someone who might steal from me or harm me or people I care about?

If this game goes live with me in it, I will be armed.

if you attack someone that was not attacking you then of course you would be the criminal. it all depends on how groups work in game, if your in a group and someone in that group commits a crime then i really don't think the guards would come running at you since you didn't do anything. you can get in trouble if the organization your part of commits a crime but we don't know exactly how the game would distinguish between an actions being blamed on an individual vs being blamed on the group as a whole.

a person shouldn't be able to go afk and then find out that their guilty of a crime just cause their friend attacked someone.

so in the case of someone attacking you and they have a buddy just standing there, that guy didn't commit a crime to attacking him would result in npc's labeling you as a criminal.

in all these hypothetical's you have to think about how npc's will view things. for them all they would see is person A attacked person B, person B fought back against person A but also attacked person C. so person A is guilty of attacking person B and person B is guilty of attacking person C.


8/15/2019 10:22:21 PM #9
+0

In real life, it can be hard to tell if someone was attacking another. We may be very well armed in this game and able to harm each other quickly. I plan to play a female when I can in this game. I plan to kill anybody who threatens me right away.

How is that going to work?


6D242B

8/15/2019 10:25:56 PM #10
+1

All this will vary by location -- with different kingdoms, duchies, counties, and settlements all probably having different laws. Also it should be worked out with the investigation system -- which should put together the evidence and reach some king of presumptive conclusion. Then it will likely be submitted to a judge or some such functionary for processing.

People will be falsely convicted. People will be falsely acquitted. Either or both those things will sometimes happen on purpose.


Count of Frostale, in the Duchy of Fioralba, in the Kingdom of Ashland, by the Grace of Haven. The above opinions are mine alone and do not reflect those of my Kingdom or Duchy.

https://chroniclesofelyria.com/forum/topic/17117/naw-the-duchy-of-fioralba

https://chroniclesofelyria.com/forum/topic/14124/naw-kingdom-of-ashland

8/15/2019 11:09:37 PM #11
+1

Posted By Nanyetah at 5:22 PM - Thu Aug 15 2019

In real life, it can be hard to tell if someone was attacking another. We may be very well armed in this game and able to harm each other quickly. I plan to play a female when I can in this game. I plan to kill anybody who threatens me right away.

How is that going to work?

you have to understand that for the most part guards are going to be npc's not players (obviously not many people want to or even can go patrol 12 hours a day 7 days a week). in some cases even the judge will be an npc.

if someone comes up to you and says "hey give me some money or else" and then you decide to attack them first then of course other players nearby will understand what happened but npc's will not. npc guards nearby will attack whoever attacked first, in this case its you. they clearly won't understand what the person said to you since they aren't sentient.


8/15/2019 11:14:03 PM #12
+0

What if they don't say anything, just somehow grab me? or come creeping into my home while I am sleeping?

Can I use a pike to stab them as they come up the stairs? Can I twist and stab them ripping them open with two knives? Then ask questions?

There would not be any question about this in the couple of other games I have played. You always kill everything you can.

People who have been trained to do that will probably be joining the game.


6D242B

8/15/2019 11:15:10 PM #13
+0

The other obvious weapon for someone talking about food production is poison. Can I poison them?


6D242B

8/15/2019 11:16:25 PM #14
+0

can I get an npc to poison them?


6D242B

8/16/2019 7:59:34 AM #15
+0

Or get an npc to poison the water hole and make everyone sick. Sheriff Woody will investigate. Was it you or the npc or both that get in trouble if you even get caught because Woody isn't too bright perhaps? What if you just kill the npc out in the boondocks after they do the deed when they come for payment so they can't point the finger at you. Or even better if you could just frame Buzz for the whole thing in the first place.


Log in to post