pay 2 win game?

i read that to become a legend or a herow or a renowned assasin or something very impressive in the ears of other players you need to take risks. those risks sometimes is gonna cost you life or sparks.(unless you could die a bunch of times without paying a penny trying to be renowned. that would be great...i guess.) Anyway. now my question goes like this. if a rich kid or adult or a developer of the game. has a bunch of stack money. then he is gonna try 100 times and ofcourse all the other who paid a crappy 40$ deal are gonna be like ( should i try this high risk target or is gonna cost me another 40$ bill). is this true or false and if its not true or fallse then i have a suggestion for you. make whoever is gonna try this high risk target. make them bleed and when i say bleed i mean. take them the experience points demote them and ban them from trying again for 2 weeks. or find out some ways for yourself ( i think i was a bit harsh there).but i want everyone to have the same opportunities. thank you for reading.

6/13/2019 10:40:40 AM #1

Sorry, on mobile or id be a little more thorough in my reply, but essentially being heroic is supposed to be risky. Its a risk vs reward situation.

That being said, if I fought something dangerous and died, but I was a nobody, I would spirit walk back to my body, brush myself off, recover and potentially try again later. The only downside apart from some injuries, scars, and broken equipment would be (I believe) 2 days worth of spark lost on the tail end of my life.

Now that 2 days lost is multiplied by your fame, but for the average, nobody player its just 2 days. Considering your suggestion was a 2 week ban, 2 days lost on the back end of your life isnt that harsh :P

6/13/2019 10:52:34 AM #2

thank you for clarifying that. so its kinda same for everyone but with the variable of fame shiefting the weight. ok its a bit fair i believe. but needs to be addressed nonetheless.

6/13/2019 3:00:37 PM #3

They do not want this to be a pay to win game in any way as far as I can tell. Yes, dying/incapacitated causes you to loose sparks of life, but we do not know yet how much of a cost that will be. Being incapacitated could only cause you to loose an hour of spark, or it could cost a day. We just do not know yet, but I wouldn't imagine they want people to quit the game because it cost too much to die.

I have a Rocket Launcher. Your Argument is Invalid.

6/13/2019 4:05:17 PM #4

Buying a spark for 30 dollars every 6 months (with normal play they expect them to last 10 months i think) is still a lot cheaper than any other pay to play mmo sub that usually goes for 15 dollars a month. Sorry if i misunderstood what you're asking.

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6/13/2019 4:52:54 PM #5

well... there kinda are ways to pay2win in CoE. For example, you can buy many accounts, sparks and souls and run your own village, your own army or anything like that, any numbers that you want. You could call that pay2win as you'd have a group of people that are loyal to you no matter what you do, which is kinda against the idea of the game... but in the end, it doesn't matter, if such gets done by individuals of a bigger guild or by one player. In the end, those characters play the game and the same laws and rules apply.

But... if you have that money to spare, you can without external help explore other continents and stuff like that, which should be considered a "win" thats worth something. You can run your own coast-town with your own shipyard and training hall, send your ships whereever you want and if those ships fail and sink, you simply buy new characters from nearby settlements, migrate them to yours and start everything again.

So... in a way, you'll be able to "buy" fame even after launch. Before launch, its obviously pay2win, IF you consider starting as a noble "winning" in CoE. Which I dont, as it's just paying for more responsibility and work.

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6/13/2019 5:05:45 PM #6

Right, barring some pretty extreme exceptions, such as a king, or a world famous hero dying in some terrible fashion that leaves them more than incapacitated, most "deaths" in the world are going to be pretty low impact for players. A single spark of life, if none of that spark is lost by dying or some other penalty during play, should last you the better part, if not all of, a real-time year.

A normal, average, player without a lot of fame should be able to die scores, maybe even hundreds, of times without losing so much life that it's an instant game over. Now, you will lose some play time each time your character dies, but in most cases we're talking hours, or a day, not weeks or months. It will wrack up in the aggregate, but generally speaking no one death will take so much play time that you need fear spending more money any time soon.

As others have pointed out though, as your fame or your infamy grows, the costs of those deaths ramp up. If a queen sallies forth to slay some large terrible beast, and that beast ends up eating the queen, it's possible for the queen to lose as much as 25% of their total play time from that death, if they were a well known and well like/well feared monarch. In a similar fashion, there are certain acts you can perform that the game system views as "dark" - when you perform these acts there is some cost to your character's lifespan. So if you're a disruptive griefer, you'll find you need to create a new character and invest a new spark of life far more often than a player that doesn't act to negatively or maliciously disrupt the normal course of play for the world around them, though admittedly not to the extent that fame or literal infamy will affect playtime.

So, I suppose it's a mix of "it's not really like that" and "Well, it's a little like that" that we have going on. It's definitely not a pay to win game in the sense that you can just go to the cash shop, buy a potion of ass-kicking or a suit of impervious armor and then be better than your fellow players, though. When the game launches there will be no cash shop, and while the promos we run prior to launch do allow players to start with certain items, or the means to produce them, already in hand, nothing we're offering is unobtainable through other means.

But, to your main point, if you have the money to buy more sparks of life, there's nothing to stop you from sparking into a new character. The good news though, is that new character won't have everything the last one did by default and it will be starting young, meaning it can't just jump right back to what the old character was doing without first developing itself up to the same level. That means that instances of players "throwing money at a boss" until they finally beat it or something similar should be few and far between (and will definitely take longer than anyone trying to do it would like, i'd imagine).

Hope that helps! :)

  • Snipehunter
6/13/2019 6:31:29 PM #7

Snipehunter thanks for the info. That's really good to know.

I have a Rocket Launcher. Your Argument is Invalid.

6/14/2019 7:05:19 AM #8


Your question is one of the most frequently discussed on the forums, and in my limited experience on Discord as well. If you are interested in the discussions, snoop around General Discussion for a while.

The way I look at it, players can either build up or out, with up meaning progressing one or a very few characters to be very skillful, and out meaning progressing many characters to be a little skillful. More money is required to build out. The limiting factor in all cases is time, because every player has some limit on the amount of time that can be spent playing, and characters cannot progress without a player playing them.

So, an external guild might attempt a zerg-fest with throw-away characters, but they may have very little success against characters who have put substantial time into building up the combat skills of their characters. Think raw recruits against ninja sensei, for example. I mentioned an external guild because a single player would not be able to control multiple characters at once, although might be able to use a bunch in an OPC army. The OPC army of recruits is also going to be no match for an OPC army of trained veterans, also potentially controlled by a single player who has trained with his troops in military tactics.

The same thing applies in all areas of endeavor that characters can take part in. The edge will go to those who build up, and who can cooperate with others who build up to create the most effective groups. Of course, some will attempt to zerg-fest those who are building up. Many of us look forward to the opportunities to deal with them.

Getting back to your initial point about taking risks, it will be necessary to take risks in order to excel, but the advantage will go to those who train for and prepare for those risks. Training and preparation take time that more money cannot provide.

At least that's the way I think it's supposed to work.

6/27/2019 6:42:12 AM #9


If you are looking at the game from a long term perspective, each perma-death / new spark means loss of skill progression.

And after each perma-death, the skill ramp from previous lives get weaker. If someone keep playing risky, the skill ramp (of multiple lives) for the players playing safe will soon allow the safer players to advance further than the risky players.

In short, your suggestion has already been implemented. The guy who took too much risk (and failed) bleeds in the long run, by losing out skill ramps since he can't learn / train that many skills with each short life span and diminshing skill ramps caused by more frequent character change.

Never argue with an idiot, cuz he will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.

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6/27/2019 6:51:32 PM #10

also they have said you can earn story points. and you earn them by playing, taking risks, doing stuff. not by being passive and safe. so if you dont have the money to buy many sparks of life (which will still last 6 months-1 year for like $25, so really not too expensive at all) you can still earn free sparks of life.

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