COMMUNITY - FORUMS - GENERAL DISCUSSION
Meanwhile, back in the lab - Combat Technique Design

I can't help but notice, as I look around, that everyone is super busy working on a thing you all might be waiting for. You know what that means?

There's still no one to stop me from telling you about my day! Muahaha!

So, allow me to once again hijack the shiny train and discuss one of my favorite topics: Combat!

Last time I spoke about combat, I took some time to explain how much positioning, especially of the camera, matters in combat. But one of the things I didn't touch in that conversation is that how your character moves through a fight matters to feel, too. There's a momentum and a weight to attacks that bring with them a sense of inertia. Your attacks can pull you through the space of a fight, or you can try to rigidly control your movement through a fight to maintain a tactical advantage.

In fact, part of a combat consideration for a fighter involves using the attacks you know to move you or your enemy in a way that grants you a superior position. Whether that's knocking an opponent off their balance so they have to take a step back, or deflecting an opponent's attack to move them out of position and create an opening, positioning is a major piece of what dictates success in a fight.

It probably comes as no surprise, given what I've just said, that we spend some time "shopping" our attacks before they ever make it to the game proper.

Before we even get to this level of pre-alpha: Sword and Shield Attack

We start back in the Fight Lab, with something like this: Mace and Shield Combo

Most of the momentum of the attacks don't exist yet at this phase, which lets us play with the attacks to figure out where we'd want them to move us in the fight, and determine whether that actually reconciles against the attack's visual language. When they don't match up, the attack feels wrong in a subliminal way that is far easier to feel than it is to see on paper, or probably even in a gif. But, because of that, we can quickly vet whether a rough combat animation is going to work before we take the time to build in the motion and weight that makes an attack feel right.

It really goes back to what I was saying last time: Taking the time to think about feel early is important. It feeds into all sorts of other aspects of the game. If the only way to make the momentum of an attack feel right is to move you into a position that doesn't fit the overarching style we're building for the attack, or if it just results in an untenable tactical position for the player, we won't include it.

In this particular case, checking the feel isn't just an "it'd be good if we did this" sort of thing; it's literally how we get to the in-game attacks you saw at the top of this post from this: Attack Tree Diagram

Thanks for letting me talk shop a little, I do hope you enjoyed it!

Stay shiny, Elyrians! :)


  • Snipehunter
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5/3/2019 4:52:37 AM #61

How about some kung fu style. It would be cool if we can create our own style of fighting. Like in those movies, shaolin kung fu, wudang sword, qigong punch, etc..


5/24/2019 1:03:02 AM #62

Will Thrusts be a thing we can execute, and will we be able to come up with our own style/combos?


5/24/2019 2:29:21 AM #63

Posted By Megatron at 9:52 PM - Thu May 02 2019

How about some kung fu style. It would be cool if we can create our own style of fighting. Like in those movies, shaolin kung fu, wudang sword, qigong punch, etc..

Posted By Desdicardo at 6:03 PM - Thu May 23 2019

Will Thrusts be a thing we can execute, and will we be able to come up with our own style/combos?

There will certainly be combat styles that involved unarmed martial arts and there will certainly be sword styles that involve thrusting as well as cutting and slashing. You may want to check out another shiny on combat here.

Hope that helps! :)


  • Snipehunter
5/24/2019 3:11:45 AM #64

Posted By Snipehunter at 7:29 PM - Thu May 23 2019

Posted By Megatron at 9:52 PM - Thu May 02 2019

How about some kung fu style. It would be cool if we can create our own style of fighting. Like in those movies, shaolin kung fu, wudang sword, qigong punch, etc..

Posted By Desdicardo at 6:03 PM - Thu May 23 2019

Will Thrusts be a thing we can execute, and will we be able to come up with our own style/combos?

There will certainly be combat styles that involved unarmed martial arts and there will certainly be sword styles that involve thrusting as well as cutting and slashing. You may want to check out another shiny on combat here.

Hope that helps! :)

Everyone was Kung fu fighting ...


Count of Frostale, in the Duchy of Fioralba, in the Kingdom of Ashland, by the Grace of Haven. The above opinions are mine alone and do not reflect those of my Kingdom or Duchy.

https://chroniclesofelyria.com/forum/topic/17117/naw-the-duchy-of-fioralba https://chroniclesofelyria.com/forum/topic/14124/naw-kingdom-of-ashland https://chroniclesofelyria.com/forum/topic/30605/of-contracts-and-commerce-a-tldnr-post https://chroniclesofelyria.com/forum/topic/31835/on-taxes-rents-and-ancestral-lands

5/25/2019 5:35:10 PM #65

amazing work! :D


https://chroniclesofelyria.com/forum/topic/23614/riftwoods-new-website-and-forum-page

5/25/2019 6:20:54 PM #66

If you guys want a goal for combat look at Black Desert Online. The game is intense and its other features are good, but their live-action combat is masterful. You could lose yourself just watching the gameplay videos. It demands a high amount of control but it rewards players appropriately

5/25/2019 8:21:15 PM #67

Posted By Spinam at 1:20 PM - Sat May 25 2019

If you guys want a goal for combat look at Black Desert Online. The game is intense and its other features are good, but their live-action combat is masterful. You could lose yourself just watching the gameplay videos. It demands a high amount of control but it rewards players appropriately

While I agree, however the combat is very repetitive for some if not most of the classes, Once you learn the main combo that the class excels at. It's a matter of rinse, wash, repeat with a few extra flairs you can throw in for fun. It's pretty to watch/look at but the actual mechanics are very dull and can be extremely boring. which is why the game fell short and was forced to make a remastered and a crummy BR only a year after its release for NA and EU to keep any interest in the game what so ever.


KS Backer #44

5/25/2019 9:30:17 PM #68

Well the combat should be repetitive to some degree. Behind martial arts is intent. And in the tools you use, there are only a handful of actions that birth all other styles, stances, forms. BDOs combat wasn't perfect but it serves as a good benchmark for the pace of action combat that games should be aiming for. The intention is that the game mechanics and systems should be fluid enough to not limit players. While there are going to be obvious limitations, a game that lords immersion and verisimilitude should allow for character gaps that also reflect gaps in player capabilities.

I don't think anyone wants clunky combat that simply makes battle a hack-slash mosh pit

5/25/2019 9:48:50 PM #69

Posted By Spinam at 4:30 PM - Sat May 25 2019

Well the combat should be repetitive to some degree. Behind martial arts is intent. And in the tools you use, there are only a handful of actions that birth all other styles, stances, forms. BDOs combat wasn't perfect but it serves as a good benchmark for the pace of action combat that games should be aiming for. The intention is that the game mechanics and systems should be fluid enough to not limit players. While there are going to be obvious limitations, a game that lords immersion and verisimilitude should allow for character gaps that also reflect gaps in player capabilities.

I don't think anyone wants clunky combat that simply makes battle a hack-slash mosh pit

You can achieve such mechanics without causing a defined combo system that has a definitive meta of the particular weapon your using. In BDO yes you could explore different combos and linking of said combos. The main powerful combo outplays them by a sever margin. By default it renders the others useless. Quite literally leaving no skill for the players to even incorporate into the combat mechanic. While aiming does require some level of skill, it's not hard. It boils down to who has the better gear and aiming at that point.

If you want to make a true skill based combat, you must include factors such as feints, counters, and stamina. Which CoE has considered and even included. War as is combat, not pretty or over stylized. However, it can be as you say "Less clunky" I do not however want the mechanics to be anywhere near BDO. If they want to include a systematic combo system, then allow for faints and other diversions that will allow for more diversity.


KS Backer #44

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