I read about half way and stopped. This is one of the most pointless comments I've read in a while. If you don't think SBS is going to succeed, then simply go play other games. Problem solved.
I read about half way and stopped. This is one of the most pointless comments I've read in a while. If you don't think SBS is going to succeed, then simply go play other games. Problem solved.
I get your concerns, and depending on what you have read – or not read – the impression you got might arise.
That being said, Developer Journal – 2017, A Year of Foundations answers a lot of your questions.
The section Server Foundations explains why they feel comfortable not using Spatial OS. Basically, Spatial OS gave them a scalable platform for certain but not all things they need to do. As SBS developed the systems to manage the components Spatial OS didn't they found they can do the same with what was covered by Spatial OS.
It's quite a challenging task nethertheless and I am interessted in how well it's going to work. If it is not as efficient as it could be it will swallow up money like nothing else. If they have scalable systems in place, scalability is not the issue – you have your auto-scaling on Azure, AWS or whatnot – but money is.
In terms of funding, they generally seem to be all set. Personally, I'd appreciate they put out more gameplay content and teasers to grow their user base. But at this point in time, every backer is basically pre-ordering a game many, many, many months in advance. Putting your money on the table this early isn't for everybody. Waiting is hard but we will get to see more of the game soon. From the last developer journal
We're looking forward to showing off more of the game in the coming weeks
TBD, Count of The Metheglin Meadows in Iyandolin, 🌷Kingdom of Al-Khezam 🌷, Selene
I'm not going to directly address several of your points, mostly since there are others better suited for that, but I can give you some details. First, and most important, of all, SBS didn't lay off half their staff, but three persons (which is a rather normal procedure in software production once somebody has done what they came for). Is that good? Certainly not for those three people, but the ones working in software development are rather used to that, but it is no reason to worry.
If you search the CoE Discord channel for 'from: Caspian#3850 docker', you're going to find some information as to what SBS (claims to) has done to replace the migration from Spatial OS so far:
So that would be less 'they still have to do that', but more 'they have already done that' (granted though they are behind schedule, so 'already' is relative).
The plan is to grant Alpha 1 backers access to VoxElyria ( Release 0.3) in roughly 6 weeks, so, while you (unless you purchased Alpha 1 a la carte) and I both won't get to see the progress directly, some backers should. That's likely going to be the point where we can 'judge' their progress a bit better. If you've already waited 5 month, I'd say give it another 2 month and see what happened.
That said, please do not get me wrong, I am worried about several of the points you mentioned and can certainly understand your concern. I wish they would have spent less time on Pax and other stuff, but focused more on pushing out VoxEylria, as personally, I believe that once they can show a running version of the game with hundreds of thousands of AI on a large landmass (regardless of graphics) it's going to be where a good amount of 'low tier pledge' are going to happen and I much rather have thousands of people pledge some dollar each then have some people pay thousands of dollar each.
Sage willing to help with Purity (if you spot me on Discord and have some Plague on your account that could be nullified with a trade, drop me a message on Discord)
I will try to address some of your concerns.
SpatialOS wasn't the product to fix everything either, from Caspian words here under server foundations. So while SpatialOS was good, it created other problems. I'm really not even going to bother trying to explain it better than how Caspian did. Did they make the right move? I suppose time will tell, but if they were running into problems this early on, is it wise to keep going with SpaitalOS?
So with the funding, would you really have wanted SBS to cave to some publisher and this game to be filled with lootboxes pictures some EA hellhole game and gets scared. Personally I be tempted to give up on the game then and there if that ever came to pass. Wouldn't give them anymore money either, which I'm sure many others would feel the same way with the last part.
While no one wants to see any staff go, it's what had to happen. Maybe they were a bit naive thinking some publisher out there would be on board without seeing much more than us and not wanting loot boxes. Since now even single player games are filled with those stupid things.
But I would rather them keeping true to their word over turning into another P2W/loot box hellhole game. Enough of those around if anyone really wanted to play one.
I'm going to be blunt and rude with this next point, what kind of person honestly thought the game would be released in december? Oh yeah a year after KS, they magically get shit pumped out in no time. Even AAA companies can't make games that quickly. Unless it's like FIFA, where really nothing changes but a few tiny things. MMOs take time, a huge amount of time. Even the biggest MMOs, WoW/ESO etc, all took years. Why the fuck would anyone in their right mind think the game would even be close to release by now? Just seriously.. really annoys and confuses me.
Just one last point "Nothing from Alpha/Vox has been shown off" Well you know, if they were going to show Alpha 1 off, it be under NDA anyway.. so unless you have access to Alpha 1, you would have zero idea what is going on.
First I would like to point out one VERY important thing about your(the OP's) post that instantly elevates you from a troll to a concerned citizen to me. YOU HAVE ACTUALLY PLEDGED MONEY TO THE GAME! Then I searched your name and found in the past you are either inquisitive about some features or supportive of the game and don't seem to have a history of trashing the game. These two facts GREATLY influenced how I would answer your post.
Well, you certainly bring up a lot of interesting points. Things that I have of course considered myself before. Here is the way I look at it. Caspian is a salesman. He is selling his game the best he can. Almost ANY new feature of the game he is going to spin to us in the best light. I am positive he spun how great spacial is and was going to be to the game while the game was using it. I am equally positive he downplayed how important the decision not to use spacial was as well. I suspected all along that spacial was a great system to use here but not the end all feature that the game depended on to make. I also suspect that not using spacial set the development of the game back a long way. So he basically spun to us how great spacial was when he was using it. And then again spun how it wasn't a great concern now that he wasn't. If you remember. When the game was first being developed, it was being developed WITHOUT spacial. As far as we know anyway. He even said when he announced they were no longer using spacial that they spent several months retooling how they had to do things.
So I basically think what happened was they found this new system that they thought would save a lot of time, work and money to make the game and then found out there was something about the program and or company that didn't fit their needs. It might have been nothing to do with the program itself. It could have even have been a financial thing the people that make spacial wanted in return. So they had to go back to their original plan of how the game would be made. Which Caspian admitted set them back many months last summer I believe.
It dosn't surprise me that he would not tell us about it at the time of it happening and spin things in a positive light. I suspect the reason we even found out about it was because of the lay offs and Caspian realizing that things would get out eventually so best to share them himself with us so he can retain our trust. He needs our support and confidence to make the game. We want the game made too. Telling us too much info can lead to the game not being made. I don't know where you heard they layed off half the staff. Caspian said it was only a few people. I got the impression 2 to 4 but that was just my impression.
Money. It always comes down to this dosn't it? My opinion on them not getting a developer at this point and Caspian thinking we would by now is because we dropped spacial and they had to retool things and the game is being developed slower then anticipated. This the game is not developed as much as it needs to be to take to a financier to get the money they need on their terms. He has always said he thinks he will get better financing terms once the game enters Alpha. Which we are not there yet. As far as the game should have been released already argument you gave. I don't think any one ever really thought the game would come out by last Christmas. I always took that as more positive spin during the KS to raise funds.
In a nut shell this is my viewpoint on this. The developers can't tell us everything going on and need to spin everything in the best light to keep us engaged in the game and getting money from us. They are NOT trying to rip us off. They are trying to get the game made. Something all of us want. If they came on here and told us every bad thing that was going on with the game, and or didn't emphasize everything about the game in the best possible light without actually lieing to us, we would never had raised the money even for the KS to be successful. So sure the truth is stretched, expectations are greatly raised. But it's to the benefit of us all for them to do this. If we want the game made we all have to drink the kool ade and believe.
We create the buzz that the development of the game feeds off of. Killing that buzz with too much truth is not a good thing. Of course we our being told things in the best possible light. Of course things are constantly spun to us to keep us engaged and into the game. It's not to harm us but to help get the game made. We have already donated our money to the game to get it made. We are not getting it back. You sort of have to put your logical concerns aside and buy into the game being made.
While I am sure your posts and others like it are meant in the best intentions you are not really saying anything that others here have already realized. And sure you mean well but in the long run, how is this post actually helping the game being made? Your bringing up points most of us at one time or another have considered but where is the benefit in this post in having the game being made? Your not getting your money back. It's not helping but rather harming the game as it seeds doubts in peoples heads. And if you get the info you are asking what do you plan to do with it? All it will do is make you worry even more about the game being made.
I myself think the game has shown steady progression. We are suppose to be getting int Vox in a month or two and I believe Alpha 1 is right after that. I can't worry about the games fiances other than an occasional update like he just did in January because one, thats Caspian's problem and two what am I going to do about a bad financial report any way?
I really have no concerns at the moment, just want to get hands on with the game. Have always enjoyed Alpha/Beta experiences helping with the development and giving feedback to make a better product. I feel the best test is actually playing the game and working with developers for continuous improvement of CoE during Alpha/Beta/beyond Launch. So my concerns will be once we actually get into testing the system and giving constructive information back to SBS.
Hoping this will be soon, because I am so bored not having a game to play.
Well i want to thank most of you (all but one really) for your input. I had a longer post but the forums ate it so i'll hit the short and sweet version so i can go to sleep.Again i want to see this game succeed. I get where you're going with the spatialOS replacement but they are going free/open source which is prone to be hacked and this worries me and the fact backends are a hard thing to make and they are doing this while trying to keep a deadline. I feel spatial was more dropped over money with the guise of well it did not do what i wanted anyways so no worries. Which stating something you bought into not being fully what you needed is a worry that this was not thought through.
No i don't want lootboxes or p2w or nearly anything like it.Never said i did but honestly like many others have said they knew finding an investor was going be a long shot.
No i did not expect the 2017 release however i just brought it up as a point to the fact of they have set unrealistic expectations and this seems to keep being a trend.So i worry how much is sold as hype and what will actually be delivered.
As well i know nothing from vox or alpha has been show but so far nothing has been shown of the actual game either(not counting the creation screen the other day) It's all pretty much tech demos and staged as stated above. So no i don't expect to see something that does not exist as it's not happened but again nothing else has been seen that is somewhat core to the game that is not"placeholder".
@reddoggybone I just want to say i love the fact of how you answered and it's very well done at that salute bro o7. That being said i can't write a decent reply back that will do it justice at this time and i am truly sorry for it but the short reply is funny and to the point i am sure you will laugh and approve.
I don't mind drinking the kool aid (after all i did buy it) but i want to make sure jim jones didn't handle it you know what i mean? :D I get to much truth can hurt but i rather have the truth and know whats happening instead of being sold a story that my money has bought a unicorn and what i really bought a donkey that sounds like damn eddie murphy.
SpatialOS and funding were two of my early concerns as well. I never believed the game was going to make it out by late 2017 (because no matter what you're playing or backing, nothing in game development ever comes out on time), and honestly, I don't foresee anything before early 2020 being a realistic projection of the game's release. The loss of SpatialOS is, unfortunately, a concern that can't really be fully allayed until we reach the point where the alpha NDA is lifted. Once we get there, we'll have a better idea of how things are going.
That said, I remain confident that the game will come out as it was originally envisioned, or very close to it. And part of the reason for that is SbS deciding not to take on a publisher. If they had made concessions in order to get the game made, that would be the point at which I would begin to doubt that we'd see what we backed. I'm not without doubts - SOS was a pretty solid choice for what they want to achieve, and lacking the in-depth knowledge of software engineering I'd need to understand what they'd have to implement to replace it, my only gauge of their replacement tech will be its performance. Funding is an issue as well, but one I'm less concerned about. As has been stated, alpha will (in any case but it turning out to be an absolute disaster) be one of the game's major draw points for additional funding on the way to launch.
By the time the game reaches beta, we should have a reasonably clear projection of how likely a good release is. Your doubts are understandable, and reasonable. But it's unlikely they can be laid to rest at this point. I feel that before we can see and interact with the game world, it's too early to be overly concerned about its release. Too early to have any real expectations regarding the outcome at all. All there really is to do at this stage is sit and wait for the next milestone, unless you're heavily into community engagement.
To touch Divinity, one must be prepared to brave Reality.
Posted By shifue at 02:19 AM - Mon Mar 26 2018
I get where you're going with the spatialOS replacement but they are going free/open source which is prone to be hacked and this worries me and the fact backends are a hard thing to make and they are doing this while trying to keep a deadline.
No i did not expect the 2017 release however i just brought it up as a point to the fact of they have set unrealistic expectations and this seems to keep being a trend.So i worry how much is sold as hype and what will actually be delivered.
What deadline are you talking about? From what I know, they have not set any. There are rough dates when they plan to work on things, but apart from that, nothing has been said they have a very strict deadline.
Also with the KS, I have always wondered how far ahead people can even set those dates. From the few games I have looked up, all have dates very near in the future. Which just makes me curious the KS website themselves forces them to pick such a date.
As well i know nothing from vox or alpha has been show but so far nothing has been shown of the actual game either(not counting the creation screen the other day)
A few DJs go into a bit of detail about Vox. But everything is under NDA. So for example, even if anything was happening with Alpha 1, you wouldn't know if you don't have said alpha 1 access. So you may doubt the game is making any head way, but really it could be. So I could see from the outside view how that maybe annoying, just gotta roll with it, if you don't wanna buy access.
@reddoggybone I just want to say i love the fact of how you answered and it's very well done at that salute bro o7. That being said i can't write a decent reply back that will do it justice at this time and i am truly sorry for it but the short reply is funny and to the point i am sure you will laugh and approve.
I don't mind drinking the kool aid (after all i did buy it) but i want to make sure jim jones didn't handle it you know what i mean? :D I get to much truth can hurt but i rather have the truth and know whats happening instead of being sold a story that my money has bought a unicorn and what i really bought a donkey that sounds like damn eddie murphy.
So, you admit your old enough to know who Jim Jones is! LOL. We all have a little bit of Jim Jones in us when it comes to putting something we are involved with in the best light. As Wolfguarde said, it's a tad bit to early to be worrying about some things like the Alpha and drawing investors. I think the game has just not reached the point of showing off more of it yet. Be patient young padiwon. Lets see were we are at by summers end. Or at the next state of the game report in July. I have concerns too about the fiances and not having a backer but they don't really seem to be pushing all that hard to raise more money from us. I mean if they would ever release a full version of the store and ALL we can buy in it that would raise a lot more money as I know that I for one would have bought lots more Ep if I knew exactly what I could buy with it. But they seem to have no real concern with doing that before it's time. I feel most of the little things like the new items to buy this month are just a drop in the bucket towards the finances and not a real big concern of them running out of money any time soon. Which has always been my major concern.
I feel like we're going back in time here for no reason whatsoever. We've discussed these things to death and any fears people had were quickly quashed with videos, journals and the devs answering questions here and on Discord in detail about everything that's gone on. Infact the thing about Spatial is it turns out it's actually far better that they're dealing with that side of things themselves than outsourcing it to Improbable.
The Soulbound team are by no means stupid. They have looked at the game from numerous angles with a view to solving any potential problems and catering with it's longer term growth and improvement.
Where they have familiarised themselves with third party software such as Spatial OS, they have taken a great deal away from it. Where they have come to the conclusion that the financial model from such partnerships may not be in the best long term interest of the product, they have learnt a great deal about other ways to approach the problems they faced. In doing so, they have subsequently designed in house solutions as a replacement that are capable of fulfilling their requirements without the excessive financial commitments to third parties.
It's in short a sensible and well thought out decision, one that I believe many of their followers fully support.
In regards to timescales, they have been fully transparent to date. Getting the back end and engine in the best possible state is key to the success of any game and requires that it's done well. This accounts for a significant amount of the overall development effort. In regards to how it's shaping out, community response has been very positive both on general access content and more restricted content that I cannot discuss. In short it's shaping up very well indeed and the team clearly have a good eye for quality. I have no doubt the game will be a big success at this point.
In regards to funding and overall timescales, the team have made no compromises on quality. I'm sure if they were inclined, they could have shipped out a mediocre title by now, but mediocre is clearly not what they are aiming at. Personally, like many others here, I would rather they continue on that quality drive than rush out something half finished to meet demands of "now" from the more impatient followers.
instead of pointless speculation lets just play vox in 5 weeks or so and then we will know something. i understand ur concern i once had them too as i had seen many kickstarters fail none i put money in but still. this is diffrent though these people are pre alpha and have better looking carictor designs than something thats been around over 15 years. im refering to runescape by the way. fun fact that game in the cheepest possible way to get a year of that is 90 usda this game i do beleive its 25 a year. even if ur nervious give it a go its cheeper than an old call of duty game. and the content they have shown is in its own league for pre alpha. they have also said in their streems they have all the tools now that spacial os would have provided so we have no loss from this.
Friend Code: 6DEF22
Posted By HEDGEMONZERO at 3:37 PM - Sun Mar 25 2018
instead of pointless speculation lets just play alpha in 5 weeks or so and then we will know something. i understand ur concern i once had them too as i had seen many kickstarters fail none i put money in but still. this is diffrent though these people are pre alpha and have better looking carictor than something thats been around over 15 years. im refering to runescape by the way. fun fact that game in the cheepest possible way to get a year of that is 90 usda this game i do beleive its 25 a year. even if ur nervious give it a go its cheeper than an old call of duty game. and the content they have shown is in its own league for pre alpha. they have also said in their streems they have all the tools now that spacial os would have provided so we have no loss from this.
Just so you know the Alpha is not coming out in 5 weeks. :) Voxelaria is coming out then. Hopefully.
I was a kickstarter backer of this game. The reason I backed on kickstarter was this sounded like the sort of mmo I've been looking for since I first found out that mmo's existed. Regardless of whether the idea went anywhere, I wanted to do my part to show that there is a market for this kind of game. Since then, I've gotten involved in the community and have been impressed by sbs's interaction with the community, and commitment to building Elyria. It also helps that their explanations of decisions they have made are logical and their priorities have remained consistent. I believe this game will be released, but all crowdfunded projects are risky investments with no guarantee of success. That's why they are crowdfunded by people who think the potential reward is worth the risk of failure rather than a major developer who is pretty certain they will make a return on their investment. Anything that is custom-made will have setbacks and changes to the plan over the course of development/production. It seems to me that sbs has handled these setbacks and changes well so far, and I believe they have a very good chance of success, so I am content to wait patiently.
