6 May

Pushing Back the Upcoming Ducal Pick Window

By Vye

Salutations Elyrians,

Though we stand on the verge of the ducal pick time, I come bearing news. Due to a variety of internal and external factors, the start of the ducal pick period is being delayed by one week. Dukes and duchesses will begin to pick their domains on the 13th of May, rather than the 6th of May. This means that counts and mayors will also begin their process a week later than originally planned. However, independent of your start date, your pick window will be at the same time of day. Likewise, any effort you've made to push your pick time forward is still valid and preserved. Though you will start a week later, your position relative to other members of your peer group will remain the same.

As I'm sure you can imagine, this is not a decision we've come to lightly. Those following along are probably already aware of some of the challenges that we've faced as the Domain and Settlement Selection process began and moved through its first week: we've dealt with technical challenges from the terabytes of data that represent the maps, online attacks against the site itself meant to interfere with your ability to choose your domains, and unexpected, although exciting developments within the server communities. Moving through the week we've rolled with the punches, putting more powerful hardware into the map preparation processes, fighting the DDoS attacks, and counseling monarchs and others affected by the kingdom picks. However, despite our best efforts, they simply weren't enough to keep the process on track.

In theory, we could open the site later this week, but we would be doing so knowing there is little time to comprehensively test the integration of the myriad elements that are still coming together even today. And we would be robbing the monarchs the time they need to pick their own crown duchies while, at the same time, giving the dukes and duchesses of Elyria a shorter time frame to make their own picks. It's better, we believe, to to take the extra care necessary to ensure we can test everything thoroughly, even at the cost of delaying something we know you're all hotly anticipating. You deserve the best possible experience, so we're asking for your patience as we take the time necessary to roll out a selection process that is as feature & information rich and as stable as you need it to be. We must commit to "quality first," even when it forces us to miss a date we've already publicized.

So, effective immediately, the start date for the ducal pick window will now be May 13th, 2019, causing each subsequent phase to be pushed back by 1 week. We will not be altering the pick orders, and pick times will still be at the same time of day, just one week later. We understand that many of you have altered plans to be ready for your pick time, and this delay affects those plans. We will make it up to you. First, by delivering you a quality selection experience. Second, by giving all players who are participating in Domain and Settlement Selection a small gift, to be found in your inventory after Domain and Settlement Selection ends, along with the in-game title "The Patient" for you to use on your character.

As a final note: This decision will also delay the start of our annual Kickstarterversary event. We feel it is extremely important that the Domain and Settlement Selection process resumes and the maps of your Elyria are in your hands before a new event or promotion begins.

Thank you for your time, and your understanding,

Vye and the Soulbound Studios team

Discuss

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way hunglow - 2 months ago

Is there any thing I can participate in right now

Kyleran - 2 months ago
@way hunglow:

Posted By way hunglow at 6:22 PM - Mon May 27 2019

Is there any thing I can participate in right now

Well, the store is always available.

;)

Ezicc - 3 months ago

That's understandable Ragnhild.

As I understand things from the Discord, they are planning on direct communication, however as a backup:

The current plan (subject to change) is for the Maps to be launched, then once they are online a date set for DS&S to open; as mentioned above the day and time of your pick remains unchanged, just the week itself is moving.

As a Mayor/Baron your pick time will be a few weeks after DS&S opens; as such if you were able to check https://chroniclesofelyria.com/news once a fortnight you'll see the announcement ahead of your pick date.

Ragnhild_Eriksdotter - 3 months ago

Hola, I don't read news, don't read forums, don't look at discord etc as stressing over a game that might take another 3 years to go live is not the way I want to exist and currently I have no free time anyway. Unfortunately for me this means taking today off work to sort settlement was pointless as COE Support did not update the message telling me today was the day.

So as I'm totally reliant on direct communication - will there be direct communication on the new dates? (Mayor/Baron) or do I need to waste time ferreting about on forums? Before anyone gets defensive on behalf of COE I'm working 14 hours a day 7 days a week at the moment so really don't have the capacity to chase around after this.

Crassus - 3 months ago

Couldn't think of a better place to post these questions...

  1. So, I got mail with my date/time for domain selection. I understand that its been pushed 1 or 2 weeks - not sure now (mayor)

  2. Will I get another mail so I know for sure? If not, is there a thread that I can watch for the info or is this the one?

  3. I'm not clear what I do on that date/time. Will I login to see a URL on my account page that directs me to the Selection area?

Rhyin Arcwolf - 3 months ago
@Crassus:

Posted By Crassus at 12:16 PM - Mon May 20 2019

Couldn't think of a better place to post these questions...

  1. So, I got mail with my date/time for domain selection. I understand that its been pushed 1 or 2 weeks - not sure now (mayor)

  2. Will I get another mail so I know for sure? If not, is there a thread that I can watch for the info or is this the one?

  3. I'm not clear what I do on that date/time. Will I login to see a URL on my account page that directs me to the Selection area?

So, i do not have a domain, so i do not have 1st hand info, just what i have gathered from posts and what has been said in Discord.

1) Day of week and time will stay the same (ie: Monday at 1pm EST) the date will be what it would have been +weeks that have been delayed. So if in the end DSS is pushed back 4 weeks, your selection would be your original day-of-week and time +4 weeks.

2) I imagine you will get a new e-mail, however there will also be a Dev post (which is e-mailed if you are signed up for news letter) when DSS is re-announced. so you will know to check back in.

3) There will be a URL in either a post, e-mail or Dev Post that you go though. Might have to re-sign in.

I hope this helps.

Coros - 3 months ago

So. It's a week after the promised May 13th. Any news?

EDIT: Nevermind, saw the post "Almost but not quite there" stating it's pushed back to this week. Would be nice to edit OP in this thread as well. Thanks!

Rex_SteelFist - 3 months ago
@Coros:

Posted By Coros at 01:09 AM - Mon May 20 2019

So. It's a week after the promised May 13th. Any news?

EDIT: Nevermind, saw the post "Almost but not quite there" stating it's pushed back to this week. Would be nice to edit OP in this thread as well. Thanks!

After Casp spoke to the folks on Discord they pushed it back without a date. The plan was to finish the map and fully test the website, then give us access with new dates at that point.

I believe that Casp said that the team had the weekend off to recover from the crunch mode they were in to get everything done by the dates they kept setting.

They are making sure the maps are 100% done and correctly balanced before they move to the next step.

captrench - 3 months ago

As someone whose had enough with pre launch hype and post launch (or no launch at all) disasters with previous mmo's, I'm very happy to wait if thats what it takes to deliver a quality product.

Anyone else here remember these?

  1. Revival,
  2. World of Darkness MMO,
  3. Dogma (WoD successor project),
  4. The Secret World,
  5. Wizadry Online,
  6. Aion

The first three never arrived after much hype from both fans and developers. The second three arrived but were hugely controversial in the issues they had post launch for various reasons, again, after much hype from both sides.

Making MMO's is difficult. So much industry history shows this. I want a good game, and i'm prepared to wait and pay for it. Hype and pre launch community events are not what i'm waiting for and dont move me.

I dont see any reason to doubt the credibility of the devs yet. They are actually doing something really innovative after years of derivative dribble from the industry, in an industry that punishes any attempts to deviate from the World of Warcraft template.

Its hard enough doing something original. Lets save the criticism for the game, as we get it, not before.

Arkale82 - 3 months ago

@Caspian You're damned if you do and damned if you don't... The way I see it, You delay with the intent to have a presentable end product... there are those that will complain... Or, you rush the product for their sake and end up with a dumpster fire... again, there are those that will complain. Caspian... thank you for undertaking such a daunting project with so many variables, take ALL the time you need and show me/us a glorious end result for our money and time.

Thank you again!

Kyleran - 3 weeks ago
@Arkale82:

Posted By Arkale82 at 1:09 PM - Sun May 19 2019

@Caspian You're damned if you do and damned if you don't... The way I see it, You delay with the intent to have a presentable end product... there are those that will complain... Or, you rush the product for their sake and end up with a dumpster fire... again, there are those that will complain. Caspian... thank you for undertaking such a daunting project with so many variables, take ALL the time you need and show me/us a glorious end result for our money and time.

Thank you again!

C'mon, tell us the truth, did you ever imagine back in May that you would still be waiting for DSS to start as we roll into August?

:#

RedDoggybone - 3 months ago
@Arkale82:

Posted By Arkale82 at 1:09 PM - Sun May 19 2019

@Caspian You're damned if you do and damned if you don't... The way I see it, You delay with the intent to have a presentable end product... there are those that will complain... Or, you rush the product for their sake and end up with a dumpster fire... again, there are those that will complain. Caspian... thank you for undertaking such a daunting project with so many variables, take ALL the time you need and show me/us a glorious end result for our money and time.

Thank you again!

I admire your faith.:)

Asterid Solanaceae - 3 months ago

Thank you for the updated information. It is understandable that a project this complicated has set backs.

AlastairBjorne - 3 months ago

It bothers me how easily people get upset over delays. Sucks for whichever King has to deal with these impatient people. Will enjoy hunting these dissolute squanderers on the field.

RedDoggybone - 3 months ago
@AlastairBjorne:

Posted By AlastairBjorne at 6:57 PM - Sun May 12 2019

It bothers me how easily people get upset over delays. Sucks for whichever King has to deal with these impatient people. Will enjoy hunting these dissolute squanderers on the field.

Might be hard to catch me because you will be 80 years old.

AlastairBjorne - 3 months ago
@RedDoggybone:

Posted By RedDoggybone at 6:45 PM - Sun May 12 2019

Posted By AlastairBjorne at 6:57 PM - Sun May 12 2019

It bothers me how easily people get upset over delays. Sucks for whichever King has to deal with these impatient people. Will enjoy hunting these dissolute squanderers on the field.

Might be hard to catch me because you will be 80 years old.

Lol touché

Kyleran - 3 months ago

In the absence of other info, one assumes everything is on track for Monday.

;)

RedDoggybone - 3 months ago
@Kyleran:

Posted By Kyleran at 3:03 PM - Sun May 12 2019

In the absence of other info, one assumes everything is on track for Monday.

;)

That's one way too look at it.

ShadowTani - 3 months ago

It doesn't help how hard they work at it unfortunately if it takes the computer days to generate the world, then a delay is almost guaranteed if anything turns out to be off at the end.

Kilrha - 3 months ago

Please take all the time you guys need. After the kind of money I've put in this game I'd like it to be as polished as it can get.

Arderas - 3 months ago

I've waited 3 years. My money is already in your hands. Take your time, get it right.

Stelaphina - 3 months ago

But Caspian said it would be finished. Are we not to believe what the CEO says about the progress?

Remember they only needed a few more days.

Kaynadin - 3 months ago
@Stelaphina:

Posted By Stelaphina at 6:28 PM - Sat May 11 2019

But Caspian said it would be finished. Are we not to believe what the CEO says about the progress?

Remember they only needed a few more days.

They said they only needed a few days last time as well, hence the disbelief in any date at this point by many.

Marovec - 3 months ago

I hate to say this, but at this point it is safer to assume it's not done, then be pleasantly surprised if it is.

Gunnlang - 3 months ago
@Marovec:

Posted By Marovec at 09:21 AM - Sun May 12 2019

I hate to say this, but at this point it is safer to assume it's not done, then be pleasantly surprised if it is.

While that's better, even with my negative view. I can't see them doing 3 delays. If they were that badly out. Wouldn't be able to trust anything they say. They really can't just keep saying "we only need a few more days". All that "fool me once" saying starts coming into play. Be easier checking out and just looking in on the game in a few years time. Maybe something be happening by then.

Sir Zyr - 3 months ago

Hofstadter's law

It always takes longer than you expect, even when you take into account Hofstadter's Law

It's not incompetence, it's just that they underestimated the amount of time it would take

Maddonach - 3 months ago
@Sir Zyr:

Posted By Sir Zyr at 7:57 PM - Fri May 10 2019

Hofstadter's law

It always takes longer than you expect, even when you take into account Hofstadter's Law

It's not incompetence, it's just that they underestimated the amount of time it would take

At this point, it is incompetence.

Kyleran - 3 months ago

So it's Friday morning, and the question on many folks minds is...

Are we there yet?

Duyo - 3 months ago
@Kyleran:

Posted By Kyleran at 11:45 PM - Thu May 09 2019

So it's Friday morning, and the question on many folks minds is...

Are we there yet?

Now Saturday morning and still no word.... not a good sign.

Logain - 3 months ago
@Duyo:

Posted By Duyo at 11:08 AM - Sat May 11 2019

(...)still no word(...)

Caspian has provided an update on Discord (10th of May, 5:43 PM), which you can find with 'from: Caspian#3850 during: 2019-05-10 feature complete' . Since they dislike quoting what they said on Discord on the Forum, I'm going to leave it at that.

Sir Zyr - 3 months ago
@Kyleran:

Posted By Kyleran at 9:45 PM - Thu May 09 2019

So it's Friday morning, and the question on many folks minds is...

Are we there yet?

It's still (barely) Thursday night on the west coast, where SbS is headquartered, for the record

Kyleran - 3 months ago
@Sir Zyr:

Posted By Sir Zyr at 02:58 AM - Fri May 10 2019

Posted By Kyleran at 9:45 PM - Thu May 09 2019

So it's Friday morning, and the question on many folks minds is...

Are we there yet?

It's still (barely) Thursday night on the west coast, where SbS is headquartered, for the record

When the ball drops in NY to celebrate the start of a New Year, it isn't done at 3:00AM ET

Here in the US, ET rulez!

Besides, I figured by the time most folks read this post it would be Friday.

;)

Nuubra - 3 months ago

Strongly agree with the process. You guys are doing a great job!

Dominus Satanus - 3 months ago

The Elyrians job is not to reason why. The Elyrians job is to wait or (NOT UNTIL) die!

Master_Sic - 3 months ago

Aaaaaaaand here we are at the start of the ripple effect :) . Good luck.

MistrZpekla - 3 months ago

Rather delay but a solid start! #notaneafan

Solallavina - 3 months ago

It's fine, you work a lot allready and we all think you are doing great work ! Continue like this ! Even if people say you're slow!

HolyAvengerOne - 3 months ago
@Solallavina:

Posted By Solallavina at 04:38 AM - Wed May 08 2019

It's fine, you work a lot allready and we all think you are doing great work ! Continue like this ! Even if people say you're slow!

It's not about being slow, it's about making decisions to progress. They've got a lot of slack cut for them, now I wish they can deliver on it instead of hanging them with it ;)

I don't think in their case it's a problem of will, they're really trying their darnedest, but there's clearly a deficit in terms of skills or execution, namely in planning and engineering, along with what looks like some misplaced pride/ego that seems to make them deaf to their fan's best advice.

shrug

From here onwards, for me, anything they deliver is much-appreciated bonus for me, and if called upon, I'll do my best to test and play and push to help make things as good as they can be.

At the end of the day, when I backed this, I knew well what I was risking, so that's no biggy how it all ends. Most startups don't make it in the long run, but it doesn't mean it's wrong to try or support them. I just won't put more money into it, nor will I try to sell it to friends anymore, at least not until I see some very concrete results.

ElectricBears - 3 months ago

Well done, I believe this is thr right cause of action. If you can stick to this kind of response to setbacks in the future I think everyone will be better off for it. And I hope that you can also learn from this and try not to commit to any date at all until you are just about ready to launch, then just have it in your hands ready to go while you work on the next thing, the excitement build will be the same, the time frame for people to organise will be the same, you will just be better off and more future proof for it.

Good luck 🤞

Caterham - 3 months ago

Good luck to all.

Pendulum - 3 months ago

I'm frustrated by the delays. It does not look good or inspire confidence with the developer teams alleged ability to actually handle this game.

I just wish you weren't pushing this month's ago. I just wish you didn't make up false dates. I just wished that this time you would get this done smoothly.

Honestly SBS, I know you probably tell yourselves that we expect the world from you, but in this case it was actually the bare minimum. If your performance isn't improved expect the frustration to evolve into things far more serious and damaging.

You still have my support. Although, right now, it feels like we are building these foundations on sand. Please be a little more intelligent and cautious in how you operate. The "rushed" mentality is wounding you deeply.

DragualMonarth - 3 months ago
@Pendulum:

Uh... Get over it? It's the development of an unorthodox MMO/MEOW. What in the right mind could you possibly expect? There are ALWAYS delays, even on the most simple, non-multiplayer games that don't have to worry about networking or anything that nature.

Atogrim - 3 months ago

Well, the upside for me is: I have two weeks off from work and now my selection window is perfectly placed in my holiday ^^

RedDoggybone - 3 months ago
@Atogrim:

Posted By Atogrim at 04:53 AM - Tue May 07 2019

Well, the upside for me is: I have two weeks off from work and now my selection window is perfectly placed in my holiday ^^

Young Skywalker. Right now it's perfectly placed in your holiday. Things have been pushed back twice now. Why do you have confidence it wont be eventually pushed right out your window of opportunity?

Atogrim - 3 months ago
@RedDoggybone:

Posted By RedDoggybone at 3:29 PM - Tue May 07 2019

Posted By Atogrim at 04:53 AM - Tue May 07 2019

Well, the upside for me is: I have two weeks off from work and now my selection window is perfectly placed in my holiday ^^

Young Skywalker. Right now it's perfectly placed in your holiday. Things have been pushed back twice now. Why do you have confidence it wont be eventually pushed right out your window of opportunity?

chuckles Valid question. Alas, the answer is rather underwhelming I am afraid: I didn't take a single look at this forum for at least 1 1/2 years. So no burnout on my end for the moment.

Loquai - 3 months ago

After being in this thing for 3 + years....another week is not even close to a big deal....you short timers need to relax...it will get here...

Kyleran - 3 months ago
@Loquai:

Posted By Loquai at 11:19 PM - Mon May 06 2019

After being in this thing for 3 + years....another week is not even close to a big deal....you short timers need to relax...it will get here...

I know right? At least 5 or 6 more years to go, based on velocity to date.

;)

Diggalot - 3 months ago

I'm just glad the game is still in development. Compared to other Kickstarters I've experienced this one is tip top, it's in a league of its own, we really are being pampered here.

I sympathise with the people who feel let down by another week's delay but hey this is a Kickstarter....don't drink too much hype juice else all you're going to feel for the next what, three years? is a hell of a lot of come downs.

DerryFH - 3 months ago
@Diggalot:

Posted By Diggalot at 5/7/2019 12:30:40 AM

I'm just glad the game is still in development. Compared to other Kickstarters I've experienced this one is tip top, it's in a league of its own, we really are being pampered here.

Worry not, it will be in development as long as money will come from the pixel store.

Also, what is a one week delay for selecting a part of a jpeg image, when game release is already 1.5y behind schedule?

Tilarium - 3 months ago
@DerryFH:

Posted By DerryFH at 9:03 PM - Mon May 06 2019

Posted By Diggalot at 5/7/2019 12:30:40 AM

I'm just glad the game is still in development. Compared to other Kickstarters I've experienced this one is tip top, it's in a league of its own, we really are being pampered here.

Worry not, it will be in development as long as money will come from the pixel store.

Also, what is a one week delay for selecting a part of a jpeg image, when game release is already 1.5y behind schedule?

I'd rather see a game delayed by 1.5 years (or more) then "finished" and pushed out the door and never updated again. I've seen that far to often.

Kyleran - 3 months ago
@Tilarium:

Posted By Tilarium at 10:15 PM - Mon May 06 2019

Posted By DerryFH at 9:03 PM - Mon May 06 2019

Posted By Diggalot at 5/7/2019 12:30:40 AM

I'm just glad the game is still in development. Compared to other Kickstarters I've experienced this one is tip top, it's in a league of its own, we really are being pampered here.

Worry not, it will be in development as long as money will come from the pixel store.

Also, what is a one week delay for selecting a part of a jpeg image, when game release is already 1.5y behind schedule?

I'd rather see a game delayed by 1.5 years (or more) then "finished" and pushed out the door and never updated again. I've seen that far to often.

A noble attitude, but we'll see how you feel 3 or 4 years from now and still no game yet.

As a CU backer who just watched year six roll by with still no promised delivery date I now take the extremely long view on release projections.

DerryFH - 3 months ago
@Tilarium:

Posted By Tilarium at 5/7/2019 2:15:33 AM

I'd rather see a game delayed by 1.5 years (or more) then "finished" and pushed out the door and never updated again. I've seen that far to often.

If the game was released:

First - that would mean that despite the issues, studio managed to deliver. Til this date everything that could be delayed was delayed.

Second - there would be something to improve on/ to update. Now, all we have is jpegs and journals.

Aeryn Suun - 3 months ago

DDoS attacks that bites. So no map snapshots, I can ponder over for the extra week, awh.

Daynen - 3 months ago

It's not how often a man fails, but how he responds to his failures. Soulbound has made no more or less blunders than any AAA studio or indie dev and deserves no more or less ire; the DIFFERENCE is that with Soulbound, I've never seen anything but honest admittance of mistakes and genuine respect for the vision they've set down for their players.

Whereas most big devs would just shrug and say "oh well, sucks to be you; on with the deadlines!" Soulbound has had the spine to say "No, wait, hold up, we tripped on something. Our fault. Let's back up and do this right." Even when it's something they couldn't have predicted or prepared for, they take ownership of the problem. Even when it means driving the impatient little children into a frenzy, they put their foot down and set the better example.

Stay the course, SBS; don't ever let the kiddies rile you. This will all be worth it in the end.

PhoenixI - 3 months ago

I'm surprised by the number of negative posts. If they would stick to constructive criticism and show some perspective I would feel like life was in order.

I suppose most of these posters would not do well with a lover who is almost always late getting ready for the party but almost always gorgeous. They would argue about it and get upset and end up getting a divorce. I just learn to live with it and have a blast once they are actually ready.

Yes it's good to keep nudging SBS to be more careful with deadlines. Yes it is one of their minor flaws and they know it. But when I listen to them talk about their work I can see the passion and the quality. SBS feels almost like good DMs rather than some anonymous game company and that's a big complement.

Of course I mitigate my enthusiasm. I invest hundreds not thousands (I'm poor and disabled so that's a vote of confidence but not a big gamble). It's a potential major hobby but not a lifestyle (at least until I see a good beta).

Keep up the good work. This is all just noise. As long as you mostly pull things off in the long run, life will be good.

If the messages were more moderate and balanced I would just be one more voice saying "try to avoid firm dates until you are further along." All of the errors actually make a lot of sense to me but it's good to look at errors and get feedback.

However, since so many messages are ridiculously hyperbolic and negative. I will instead focus on my impression that you are all doing a great job there at SBS. I'm really impressed by: your vision, what sounds like quality work, and how good you are with the community. Keep up the good work. This is a minor bump.

Hellmoon - 3 months ago

Posted By Barlin at 3:15 PM - Mon May 06 2019

Please explain how a ddos attack stops u from rendering maps, especially after u said u outsourced them - because I don t understand...

Why are no renderings done when u said last week that u are almost done ?

As stated in the previous D&SS update, map creation is done by three teams - each team has their own set of responsibilities and is dependent on the work of the previous team to move forward. So basically, it's an assembly line: one person makes the body, one person makes the wheels, and one person puts it all together - now what happens if any one of those people has to go put out a fire? The item may not have wheels, it may not have the body, or it may not get built. Time spent dealing with something else is time lost on moving forward with D&SS/map creation.

Tinarius - 3 months ago
@Hellmoon:

A delay?! This is shocking!!

Oh wait, its like the website store all over again. Blaming a mysterious European company on their website store launch delay. Remember that? It was only delayed 3 or 4 times if I recall correctly.

Or when they slipped on their December 2017 full release launch date.

Or when they said Spatial would save them years of time only to later say "nope, we'll build it ourselves and it'll save us time!"

Or when they said they'd start as a voxel system, then, whoops! we changed our mind!

Or when they said they would shut down the store in November 2016 since they had already achieved more than they hoped for.

Or when they show nothing but ideas, concepts and illustrations yet very little game play beyond anything done with UE and some basic controller assets.

Or when Caspian's 10+ year Soulbound Engine project would save them untold amounts of time for the games narrative and replayability.

And now they delay an event that is centered around their very own whales with their usual tactic of pointing blame at things "out of their control".

What's most shocking is how much leeway they've been given. If our donations were actual investments, Caspian would've been out on his ass years ago.

TeaTowelChicken - 3 months ago
@Tinarius:

Posted By Tinarius at 07:28 AM - Tue May 07 2019

If our donations were actual investments, Caspian would've been out on his ass years ago.

But they’re not. I mean, if I shit gold bricks, I’d be mega rich by now. But I don’t.

Marovec - 3 months ago
@Tinarius:

Posted By Tinarius at 5/7/2019 6:28:59 AM

A delay?! This is shocking!!

Oh wait, its like the website store all over again. Blaming a mysterious European company on their website store launch delay. Remember that? It was only delayed 3 or 4 times if I recall correctly.

Or when they slipped on their December 2017 full release launch date.

Or when they said Spatial would save them years of time only to later say "nope, we'll build it ourselves and it'll save us time!"

Or when they said they'd start as a voxel system, then, whoops! we changed our mind!

Or when they said they would shut down the store in November 2016 since they had already achieved more than they hoped for.

Or when they show nothing but ideas, concepts and illustrations yet very little game play beyond anything done with UE and some basic controller assets.

Or when Caspian's 10+ year Soulbound Engine project would save them untold amounts of time for the games narrative and replayability.

And now they delay an event that is centered around their very own whales with their usual tactic of pointing blame at things "out of their control".

What's most shocking is how much leeway they've been given. If our donations were actual investments, Caspian would've been out on his ass years ago.

Harsh, but...well...yeah.

HolyAvengerOne - 3 months ago
@Tinarius:

Posted By Tinarius at 5/7/2019 6:28:59 AM

A delay?! This is shocking!!

Oh wait, its like the website store all over again. Blaming a mysterious European company on their website store launch delay. Remember that? It was only delayed 3 or 4 times if I recall correctly.

Or when they slipped on their December 2017 full release launch date.

Or when they said Spatial would save them years of time only to later say "nope, we'll build it ourselves and it'll save us time!"

Or when they said they'd start as a voxel system, then, whoops! we changed our mind!

Or when they said they would shut down the store in November 2016 since they had already achieved more than they hoped for.

Or when they show nothing but ideas, concepts and illustrations yet very little game play beyond anything done with UE and some basic controller assets.

Or when Caspian's 10+ year Soulbound Engine project would save them untold amounts of time for the games narrative and replayability.

And now they delay an event that is centered around their very own whales with their usual tactic of pointing blame at things "out of their control".

What's most shocking is how much leeway they've been given. If our donations were actual investments, Caspian would've been out on his ass years ago.

QFT!

Very well summarized. They need to deliver the goods. Some goods, at least. Any goods, even.

RedDoggybone - 3 months ago
@Tinarius:

Posted By Tinarius at 02:28 AM - Tue May 07 2019

A delay?! This is shocking!!

Oh wait, its like the website store all over again. Blaming a mysterious European company on their website store launch delay. Remember that? It was only delayed 3 or 4 times if I recall correctly.

Or when they slipped on their December 2017 full release launch date.

Or when they said Spatial would save them years of time only to later say "nope, we'll build it ourselves and it'll save us time!"

Or when they said they'd start as a voxel system, then, whoops! we changed our mind!

Or when they said they would shut down the store in November 2016 since they had already achieved more than they hoped for.

Or when they show nothing but ideas, concepts and illustrations yet very little game play beyond anything done with UE and some basic controller assets.

Or when Caspian's 10+ year Soulbound Engine project would save them untold amounts of time for the games narrative and replayability.

And now they delay an event that is centered around their very own whales with their usual tactic of pointing blame at things "out of their control".

What's most shocking is how much leeway they've been given. If our donations were actual investments, Caspian would've been out on his ass years ago.

My how things have changed Tina. I remember when you would have been downvoted to hell and attacked relentlessly when you first came here with a post like this post. Now you just sound like everyone else. LOL.

Tinarius - 3 months ago
@RedDoggybone:

Posted By RedDoggybone at 5/7/2019 7:51:01 AM

Posted By Tinarius at 02:28 AM - Tue May 07 2019

A delay?! This is shocking!!

Oh wait, its like the website store all over again. Blaming a mysterious European company on their website store launch delay. Remember that? It was only delayed 3 or 4 times if I recall correctly.

Or when they slipped on their December 2017 full release launch date.

Or when they said Spatial would save them years of time only to later say "nope, we'll build it ourselves and it'll save us time!"

Or when they said they'd start as a voxel system, then, whoops! we changed our mind!

Or when they said they would shut down the store in November 2016 since they had already achieved more than they hoped for.

Or when they show nothing but ideas, concepts and illustrations yet very little game play beyond anything done with UE and some basic controller assets.

Or when Caspian's 10+ year Soulbound Engine project would save them untold amounts of time for the games narrative and replayability.

And now they delay an event that is centered around their very own whales with their usual tactic of pointing blame at things "out of their control".

What's most shocking is how much leeway they've been given. If our donations were actual investments, Caspian would've been out on his ass years ago.

My how things have changed Tina. I remember when you would have been downvoted to hell and attacked relentlessly when you first came here with a post like this post. Now you just sound like everyone else. LOL.

I know LOL. I called it from the moment they deleted my question during Kickstarter.

Elf - 3 months ago

Watch as I accidentally miss the anniversary event again because it got pushed back

Barlin - 3 months ago

Please explain how a ddos attack stops u from rendering maps, especially after u said u outsourced them - because I don t understand...

Why are no renderings done when u said last week that u are almost done ?

Kamikazie - 3 months ago
@Barlin:

Posted By Barlin at 3:15 PM - Mon May 06 2019

Please explain how a ddos attack stops u from rendering maps, especially after u said u outsourced them - because I don t understand...

Why are no renderings done when u said last week that u are almost done ?

I'm just going to agree and call bullshit on SBS. Systems are still coming online and rendering is still not done. You promised us the maps as soon as they were ready and bound the monarchs by NDA. So much for an open and transparent development cycle. Ya'll are making Star Citizen's shit actually look good again.

Rubyr - 3 months ago

You will have my understanding. Thank you for relaying the information.

-Rubyr

Makaize - 3 months ago

Yes it was expected, yes it is annoying, and yes...you will still play the game when it is released. They are going to release an amazing game that we will all enjoy and if it takes longer then expected then so be it.

Fieran - 3 months ago

Here is my concern. Everyone wants transparency, so telling SBS to wait until it is done before committing to a release just causes a bunch of you whining right now about missed dates to whine that you aren't being kept informed of progress at all times. We have seen it multiple times now.

Personally, I would prefer that they be less transparent, give general broad strokes on what they are working on, and release stuff after it is ready to be released. Some of you saying that they should do precisely that are the ones that complain that SbS isn't being transparent enough when they don't tell you everything that is going on. I am sure that is frustrating for the team. You can't have it both ways.

I am not giving them a pass for being late. As I said before, I would prefer they finish and then release when ready. But I do feel that they are doing the best they can with the type of community that we are overall.

JohnWhite - 3 months ago
@Fieran:

Posted By Fieran at 4:29 PM - Mon May 06 2019

Here is my concern. Everyone wants transparency, so telling SBS to wait until it is done before committing to a release just causes a bunch of you whining right now about missed dates to whine that you aren't being kept informed of progress at all times. We have seen it multiple times now.

Because there is no middle ground? You can't set expectations such as "Fall 2019" like any of the other studios does? Or if you can't share any dates at all does that automatically means you can't do a State of Elyria address for 20 months until the crowds starts chewing on you? Or you simply forget that the last public Q&A was 6 months ago before it is pointed out at the studio and then rush to do one?

This is not a binary issue. You can both not commit to hard dates and simultaneously keep your fans aware of what you are working on and what you expect to deliver next.

RedDoggybone - 3 months ago
@Fieran:

Posted By Fieran at 12:29 PM - Mon May 06 2019

Here is my concern. Everyone wants transparency, so telling SBS to wait until it is done before committing to a release just causes a bunch of you whining right now about missed dates to whine that you aren't being kept informed of progress at all times. We have seen it multiple times now.

Personally, I would prefer that they be less transparent, give general broad strokes on what they are working on, and release stuff after it is ready to be released. Some of you saying that they should do precisely that are the ones that complain that SbS isn't being transparent enough when they don't tell you everything that is going on. I am sure that is frustrating for the team. You can't have it both ways.

I am not giving them a pass for being late. As I said before, I would prefer they finish and then release when ready. But I do feel that they are doing the best they can with the type of community that we are overall.

I can honestly say I have never complained about them not being transparent enough. Since forever I have been saying be less precise with the release dates. I mean does anyone here still have any faith in them anyway? I know some still do but I am sure most don't. So if hardly anyone believes in them anyway, why still give them? And consistently giving wildly inaccurate release dates is not being transparent. It's boarderline lying.

Fieran - 3 months ago
@RedDoggybone:

Posted By RedDoggybone at 09:48 AM - Mon May 06 2019

I can honestly say I have never complained about them not being transparent enough. Since forever I have been saying be less precise with the release dates. I mean does anyone here still have any faith in them anyway? I know some still do but I am sure most don't. So if hardly anyone believes in them anyway, why still give them? And consistently giving wildly inaccurate release dates is not being transparent. It's boarderline lying.

I am not saying that you specifically are saying that. A number of the loudest voices on here are precisely the same people that complain about a lack of transparency. Thus SbS gives out a schedule that they believe they can meet, based on their knowledge of what needs to be done and how long they think it will take, based on all known issues that can crop up. The problem is that they are literally in uncharted territory here. No one has pulled something like this off, and so there are a lot of unknown unknowns in the development process. This means that those dates might not end up being accurate. It is not lying, it is uncertainty. But because so many people loudly complain about not enough information, SbS has to give us their best guesses. And that often ends up being wrong. It's the nature of software development that dates are missed. It's not intentional and it is not them lying.

RedDoggybone - 3 months ago
@Fieran:

Posted By Fieran at 1:02 PM - Mon May 06 2019

Posted By RedDoggybone at 09:48 AM - Mon May 06 2019

I can honestly say I have never complained about them not being transparent enough. Since forever I have been saying be less precise with the release dates. I mean does anyone here still have any faith in them anyway? I know some still do but I am sure most don't. So if hardly anyone believes in them anyway, why still give them? And consistently giving wildly inaccurate release dates is not being transparent. It's boarderline lying.

I am not saying that you specifically are saying that. A number of the loudest voices on here are precisely the same people that complain about a lack of transparency. Thus SbS gives out a schedule that they believe they can meet, based on their knowledge of what needs to be done and how long they think it will take, based on all known issues that can crop up. The problem is that they are literally in uncharted territory here. No one has pulled something like this off, and so there are a lot of unknown unknowns in the development process. This means that those dates might not end up being accurate. It is not lying, it is uncertainty. But because so many people loudly complain about not enough information, SbS has to give us their best guesses. And that often ends up being wrong. It's the nature of software development that dates are missed. It's not intentional and it is not them lying.

Oh, I knew you didn't mean me specifically. :) I do disagree though. They have to stop with those precise dates unless the product being released is finished and tested. I am not saying don't tell us anything about what they are working on. Though I am fine with them just saying we are working on this now and this will be next and this afterward, I do understand some people want more. So say something like we hope to have the maps in quarter 3 this year. I myself don't even want that but that is a concession I am ok with. Sort of.

Let me word this a little differently. If their best guess on when they will have something ready for us is ALWAYS wrong, even a week before, giving a date has become pointless and actually is causing harm because it is eroding at the faith of them being able to release anything.

Fieran - 3 months ago
@RedDoggybone:

Posted By RedDoggybone at 12:55 PM - Mon May 06 2019

Oh, I knew you didn't mean me specifically. :) I do disagree though. They have to stop with those precise dates unless the product being released is finished and tested. I am not saying don't tell us anything about what they are working on. Though I am fine with them just saying we are working on this now and this will be next and this afterward, I do understand some people want more. So say something like we hope to have the maps in quarter 3 this year. I myself don't even want that but that is a concession I am ok with. Sort of.

Let me word this a little differently. If their best guess on when they will have something ready for us is ALWAYS wrong, even a week before, giving a date has become pointless and actually is causing harm because it is eroding at the faith of them being able to release anything.

Yeah, I don't think that we disagree here at all. I also said in my first post that I would prefer they have things completed before announcing it, but I am also one of those that does not think that transparency means that they have to give us an accounting for everything they are doing, along with dates for arrival.

The problem isn't people that think like us, it is the people that think they deserve to know every little thing that SbS is working on and how soon it will be in their hands. They are putting SbS into an impossible position of trying to satisfy both transparency and deadlines. It isn't something that they have been successful at, obviously.

I think that the end result needs to be an adjustment in how SbS announces things to the community. I would much rather have a generalized statement that says, "We are working on this, this, and this. Once we are closer to sharing it with you all, we will announce a release date on these things." And that announced release date should be after everything is ready to go.

So yeah, you can still be somewhat transparent about the development process and also let people know what progress is being made without sharing specific dates that cannot necessarily be met.

Takeda_Shinukage - 3 months ago
@Fieran:

Posted By Fieran at 1:02 PM - Mon May 06 2019

I am not saying that you specifically are saying that. A number of the loudest voices on here are precisely the same people that complain about a lack of transparency.

This happens because transparency doesn't exactly equate to throwing out dates. Sure having a roadmap with dates is the easy man's way to appear transparent but it's definitely not the only or most effective way. You can be completely transparent with your work flow and progress you have made then end it with, "we are not in a position to make a public estimate on when this feature will be ready". If anything that is being more transparent than giving a date your community knows you are almost guaranteed to miss... Blaming people wanting transparency seems like a very cheap cop-out and an inaccurate one at best.

RedDoggybone - 3 months ago

Haha, I love it. Predictably, after I said that Vye's post was at a negative 10 in voting the SBS supporters quickly came out and upvoted 5 times. But ask yourself this. Why did it take me bringing that to their attention to make them upvote at all when they would have done so automatically before. LOL.

You can try and cover the negativity all you want with your votes but you can't hide the sentiment felt by an increasing number of people here. And it's strange to me that they would want to when all we are trying to do is get SBS to correct a few problems dragging the game down. But I guess they feel trying to mask the problems is a better solution.

Jairone - 3 months ago

All good. Everyone should well realize by now in their lives that 'People are the reason People cannot have nice things.' That is to say, that everyone should understand the need to take actions to prevent the issues that will inevitably arise, as much as we may not like it.

So carry on, and bring us some awesome maps to play with. Ideally with the some big file size options... because tbh I have had fun playing around with making some 3d stuff out of the maps that exist, but they are just far too grand a scale to really work well without becoming a blurry blob! :D

Roger Pegoretti - 3 months ago

Although it is annoying news, better to release and present the errors mentioned.

Hellmoon - 3 months ago

If there's anything I've learned from game-related releases, it's better to have a delay than a rushed final product. The maps are no different.
Hang in there SbS, can't wait to see the final product <3

Hieronymus - 3 months ago

FWIW, "No more dates" and "quality above all" were both expectations that were set in the past 12 months. So, I think it's worth reflecting on why it is they deviated from that only to bungle a major milestone. You can't put that genie back in the bottle, but maybe you can learn something from it.

Takeda_Shinukage - 3 months ago
@Hieronymus:

Posted By Hieronymus at 09:53 AM - Mon May 06 2019

So, I think it's worth reflecting on why it is they deviated from that only to bungle a major milestone.

I'm pretty sure setting the date was for the KS event to force or motivate them to have it done by then. Idk if it was in the forum post or discord but when they were talking earlier about why it's imporant DSS not be delayed and that's why monarchs went w/o a map and etc they mentioned they have things planned that require DSS to be done asap. With the KS event supposed to be directly after DSS that's the only "time-sensitive" event we publicly have in the near future after selection. They might have the reverse auction system tied in the event promotions somehow as well as domain building things added to the store since everyone knows where they are at now, etc.

Keep in mind that is 100% all my speculation. Unless they had another internal event secret from all 3 access groups that's all I can think of right now that happens directly after DSS.

Marovec - 3 months ago
@Hieronymus:

Posted By Hieronymus at 09:53 AM - Mon May 06 2019

FWIW, "No more dates" and "quality above all" were both expectations that were set in the past 12 months. So, I think it's worth reflecting on why it is they deviated from that only to bungle a major milestone. You can't put that genie back in the bottle, but maybe you can learn something from it.

That's a good point - which is why I have reached the opinion that nothing Caspian says can actually be taken as "real talk".

It's all spin, and hype, and blowing smoke, to keep the masses operating under the impression that "everything is fine!"

We won't get any real transparency, or facts, or true status updates. Just smoke and mirrors.

Malais - 3 months ago
@Marovec:

Posted By Marovec at 09:09 AM - Mon May 06 2019

Posted By Hieronymus at 09:53 AM - Mon May 06 2019

FWIW, "No more dates" and "quality above all" were both expectations that were set in the past 12 months. So, I think it's worth reflecting on why it is they deviated from that only to bungle a major milestone. You can't put that genie back in the bottle, but maybe you can learn something from it.

That's a good point - which is why I have reached the opinion that nothing Caspian says can actually be taken as "real talk".

It's all spin, and hype, and blowing smoke, to keep the masses operating under the impression that "everything is fine!"

We won't get any real transparency, or facts, or true status updates. Just smoke and mirrors.

This is mostly my biggest fear at the moment with sbs and coe’s development. Not that caspian is actively trying to mislead but the communication failures to this point have eroded faith in what Caspian says as actually panning out.

PhoenixI - 3 months ago
@Malais:

For many people the ability to be accurate about deadlines and the ability to be accurate about quality are two different and somewhat competing skills. A commitment to quality and doing something unusually good is often part of the cause of delays.

One can of course both miss deadlines and do a bad job but what I am seeing from SBS makes me think they will make a good game. Often late but high quality is a type that does well in the world. No one gets everything better than everyone else. There are some good balance people, some great quality people and some great on time people.

SBS is clearly great at creativity and vision (from my subjective PoV and subjective is all that matters here, if enough people agree). I think SBS is above average at quality but they may be great or average. I doubt they are low quality. They are so so at deadlines, business, etc. and I don't care; that is sort of par for the course.

Gunnlang - 3 months ago
@Marovec:

Posted By Marovec at 12:09 AM - Tue May 07 2019

It's all spin, and hype, and blowing smoke, to keep the masses operating under the impression that "everything is fine!"

We won't get any real transparency, or facts, or true status updates. Just smoke and mirrors.

Just remember when it was hyped the game would be releasing this year and then people were parroting that to any new person for months.

They are never going to be realistic. Which I don't overall blame them. No one is going to stick around if they gave out the truth. DSS got hyped for last year, 5 months later they are getting to it. Doesn't feel me with hope that the game will come out before 2025.

DracoKalen - 3 months ago

Well as this is like my 6 or 7th game watching develop I'm not in the least surprised or upset. As I understand what has been said the last few days they were getting close. So I'm fine waiting another week. They probably have it working and just want a few extra days to complete testing.

Logain - 3 months ago

Posted By DracoKalen at 1:59 PM - Mon May 06 2019

Posted By Marovec at 8:10 PM - Sun May 05 2019

Only one week, eh?

Not "We are delaying it until it is done and tested?"

You guys really don't learn do you?

They are delaying it a week so they CAN test it. Says so right in the article(...)

What Marovec wanted to suggest was to wait until after the test went smooth before publicly announcing a date. Simply because, if the test turns out the product has some flaws, they would have to delay it again.

I agree with the majority of people in this thread, better have a decent product out, than to rush it. But, like a good amount of people has suggested (time and again), I wish they would learn and instead provide deadlines after the product has been successfully tested. Basically, the line of communication should be:

  1. Tell people what you are working on currently, but do not provide estimates on deadlines
  2. Once the milestone has been finished, test it internally and predict malicious user interaction
  3. After successful internal testing publicly announce a restricted test (a subset of the final audience) for the milestone
  4. After successful external testing, finally announce a deployment date set in roughly 1-2 weeks.

I am still not sure how I feel about Caspian being unwilling to invest in DDoS protection (and I fail to grasp how a solution like Cloudflare's "I'm under attack mode" wouldn't migrate the problem), because frankly, that has to be expected to happen during D&SS and I don't want to see the complaints of dukes that couldn't pick during their window because the site went down, only to find their favorite spot has been taken when they manage to select.

Takeda_Shinukage - 3 months ago

I kinda wanna start an EP gambling discord on these lol. Like a closest date w/o going over for CoE events. Idk how that works with ToU but hey sounds fun enough, might have to glance over it to make sure it follows rules.

But to the topic, I think 90% of people knew when no news came by mid-week it was an easy delay and a lot of people called delay directly the same day as the first delay. Like I said, I will never trust a date that says "we will have this done next week" when there is still MAJOR architecture work being done on the software. It's just not a reasonable date and I'm not sure why a company would give dates like that.

Onil_Shadowsworn - 3 months ago

I'm not here to moan about the delay itself. Really don't. Delays happen, part of development etc etc. What I do want- is better communication and not walls of text an hour before every deadline you yourself set up and make it public. No way anyone would believe those delays were circumstantial and happened "all of a sudden". -If you try and launch it- but encounter difficulties? believable. -If you're behind on schedule and need more time? understandable.

If you say every time that you still have AT LEAST a weeks' worth of work to be done for whatever reason, but we know about it merely hours before your own date stamp is due? That- in my opinion- is a question of integrity.

Work on your communication better, even if the decisions you make will be harsher- it won't look like layers of excuses every. single. time.

DracoKalen - 3 months ago

Question though: You are pushing Mayors/Barons until memorial day. Will we be able to pick that day?

MagistrateMondra - 3 months ago

Clowns anywhere

Zamphox - 3 months ago

Sure, I agree that they didn't execute this perfectly. I would have preferred for it to be announced when it was ready. Its just I don't imagine facing the pressure from the community is being productive or motivating at all. It is what is is, they know its not great. They don't need you shitting on them.

Vairly - 3 months ago

SbS cannot do DSS... How SbS are going to create such a complex game? This makes me doubt. I wanted to spend money in the store, but the delay greatly reduced my desire to spend money.

The project is too ambitious(to be true). + just stupid constant delays

Sunny River - 3 months ago

Dear SbS, its fine but please first Finish your Modul/ Event and then announce the Release Date.

It's not nesecary that the community gets your Module Deadline.

Please ad if possible meanwhile an Selling event so your community gets a reason to increase there ip.

Best wishes from Germany :)

HiImFoxy - 3 months ago

Amazing that there are people who ignore SBS mistakes.

Aionion - 3 months ago
@HiImFoxy:

No one is ignoring the mistakes. We just understand that mistakes are expected in such a project. This type of game is being made for the first time, like ever, so it's hard to make estimates of any kind but in order to have any structure, SBS has to make estimates. They just need to be more conservative with their estimates. Mistakes are just that - mistakes. As long as the project is going forward, even if they get ALL deadlines wrong, it's still a project worth supporting.

ZeroCool - 3 months ago
@Aionion:

Posted By Aionion at 6:21 PM - Mon May 06 2019

As long as the project is going forward, even if they get ALL deadlines wrong, it's still a project worth supporting.

Totally agree with this statement.

As for the counter argument, I mean wtf is the point of the counter argument? It’s not going change anything. It will be done when it’s done or won’t be done at all.

Anyone with half a brain cell will know the latter is always a possibility with any undertaking.

But to get upset and all highfalutin is also not solving anything, just sit back and chill, I mean it’s only a game...I mean it will be...most likely.

RedDoggybone - 3 months ago
@ZeroCool:

Posted By ZeroCool at 4:11 PM - Mon May 06 2019

Posted By Aionion at 6:21 PM - Mon May 06 2019

As long as the project is going forward, even if they get ALL deadlines wrong, it's still a project worth supporting.

Totally agree with this statement.

As for the counter argument, I mean wtf is the point of the counter argument? It’s not going change anything. It will be done when it’s done or won’t be done at all.

Anyone with half a brain cell will know the latter is always a possibility with any undertaking.

But to get upset and all highfalutin is also not solving anything, just sit back and chill, I mean it’s only a game...I mean it will be...most likely.

The squeaky wheel gets the oil my man. Sitting back and being quiet just promotes continued bad behavior. In the past, if we squeaked enough they have listened. We are squeaking really loud right now so we shall see.

Kyleran - 3 months ago
@Aionion:

Posted By Aionion at 1:21 PM - Mon May 06 2019

No one is ignoring the mistakes. We just understand that mistakes are expected in such a project. This type of game is being made for the first time, like ever, so it's hard to make estimates of any kind but in order to have any structure, SBS has to make estimates. They just need to be more conservative with their estimates. Mistakes are just that - mistakes. As long as the project is going forward, even if they get ALL deadlines wrong, it's still a project worth supporting.

I think the reason SBS has been unusually aggressive in their DSS estimates is they were trying to leverage the "goodwill" generated from the event to drive sales in the upcoming Kickstarter anniversary fund raiser.

Vye even mentioned specifically this delay would have a knockback effect on the marketing event (rightfully so).

Strategy is going to backfire in a big way if there are anymore delays or foul ups, which right now appears unlikely to improve.

RedDoggybone - 3 months ago
@HiImFoxy:

Posted By HiImFoxy at 05:55 AM - Mon May 06 2019

Amazing that there are people who ignore SBS mistakes.

It's sort of like a cult-like atmosphere. Not just here but all group atmospheres on the net are like this. People need something to follow and believe in. It's hard for them to see and admit they are just blindly following something until they are falling off the cliff. And even then some of them don't see it until they crash into the rocks. They see it as them being loyal. You attack that leadership and they attack and defend back. But the tide is turning. I saw it start to change when they bungled the last map release. I tried to tell SBS then that they had better be careful because down here in the trenches people are getting annoyed. Now as of this writing, Vye's post is at a negative 10. When in the world did you ever think you would see that happening?

This is a fucking huge warning flare sent up to SBS to get their act together. They desperately need to do something to instill confidence in their fan base or this will become a snowball rolling downhill very quickly.

To all those supporters of SBS. OK cool, you think we are overreacting. But whether we are overreacting or not you need to get your head out the sand and acknowledge that SBS has a serious fan support problem at the moment. Your mantra of "everything will be fine dosn't hold anymore" when the Devs start getting downvoted.

To SBS. Wake the fuck up and fix this before it's too late. And I don't mean the maps or whatever. You guys really need to reevaluate how you're handling us because your old methods just plain ain't working anymore.

Zamphox said, "Sure, I agree that they didn't execute this perfectly. I would have preferred for it to be announced when it was ready. Its just I don't imagine facing the pressure from the community is being productive or motivating at all. It is what is is, they know its not great. They don't need you shitting on them."

Your missing the point. This is not a one time fuck up. This is just another fuck up in an increasingly longer lists of fuck ups. This is not to shit on them. This is telling them we the supporters of the game are unhappy and they need to change things before it gets any worse.

Faustes - 3 months ago

There's enough salt in this thread from the community to keep roads clear all over the world this winter

RedDoggybone - 3 months ago
@Faustes:

Posted By Faustes at 05:14 AM - Mon May 06 2019

There's enough salt in this thread from the community to keep roads clear all over the world this winter

They could of used it in game of thrones. LOL.

Shamstone - 3 months ago

Well on the plus side, at least SBS have a large number of 'sorry but ... delay' posts available to copy and paste now, so that should save them some time rather than having to write them all from scratch again.

Pepperpot - 3 months ago

So does this mean the Kickstarter-versary event will take place after DSS has completely ended? I usually purchase something here and there so was hoping it would go towards pushing up the selection order. Oh well.

Sir_Skylos - 3 months ago

Then announce it when its ready and stop getting a bad rep

Athorias - 3 months ago

it'l be ready when its ready tbh

JohnWhite - 3 months ago

step 1: half ass the most hyped event of the year for a week due to a lack of tool on time.

step 2: commit to answering all King's questions about DSS so they agree with not calling your delay a delay

step 3: delay yet again proclaiming your ideology of never daring to half ass anything and explain it is only delayed because you had to answer all the king's inquiries anyway.

SbS gold! I hope the monarchs (the ones that are left) learned something next time they want to jump on the SbS campaign wagon.

Zamphox - 3 months ago
@JohnWhite:

Posted By JohnWhite at 5/6/2019 8:52:26 AM

step 1: half ass the most hyped event of the year for a week

step 2: commit to answering all King's questions about DSS so they agree with not calling your delay a delay

step 3: delay yet again and say it is all because how you would never dare to half ass anything and it is only delayed because you had to answer all the king's inquiries anyway.

SbS gold! I hope the monarchs (the ones that are left) learned something next time they want to jump on the SbS campaign wagon.

Can you people relax? You are acting like a child. Its ready when its ready.

Gunnlang - 3 months ago
@Zamphox:

Posted By Zamphox at 6:55 PM - Mon May 06 2019

Can you people relax? You are acting like a child. Its ready when its ready.

I get this, but then why does SBS say any release date? There are many high backers like myself in this thread, voicing their concerns. While I won't speak for others. Myself, I just want them to stick to their word. I'm not in a rush for DSS to happen, could happen a year down the road for all I care. I'm more annoyed they say a date and miss it, resulting in a delay. Now we have a delay on a delay. With a last minute post, on a last minute post.

I would rather they just take their time to get it right the first time. They are only damaging themselves in this.

Which makes me concerned about everything else they have to do. Really maps/DSS should be the simple easy things. Designing everything else for the game, that's going to be way harder. Make it seem like the game will be several years away at minimum.

Sir_Skylos - 3 months ago

Again, it's not the hitting the road blocks that has people bothered.

Work in DSS, get it to 90%, announce it, release on time. It's not hard

Daarco - 3 months ago

Everybody relax!

This is the first time in MMO history a company have ever tried something like this.

Ofcourse SBS themselves will have to hit every roadblock there is, since there is no giude to follow. If this was easy, we would have seen it long time ago from some other major MMO companies.

Deftly - 3 months ago

After you guys got that "Game with the most stormy future" award that should have been enough not to give them anymore fuel. Most mmo sites have nothing good to say about you guys. If it was a single player game I wouldn't care but CoE does need a population to function and missing dates and having people see your community saying "Stop doing this." doesn't look well.

Costanius - 3 months ago

Take Your time. We are not in a hurry, one week more or less doesn't matter. Do and test it properly before going live! Just complete things first next time before announcing them! And probably take a week in between each selection cycle to be able to react to unforseen events!

Sir_Skylos - 3 months ago
@Costanius:

Posted By Costanius at 5/6/2019 6:07:24 AM

Take Your time. We are not in a hurry, one week more or less doesn't matter. Do and test it properly before going live! Just complete things first next time before announcing them! And probably take a week in between each selection cycle to be able to react to unforseen events!

It's not the delay that has people het up, its another missed target.

All it would take is to finish the map generation before they actually announce DSS.

Then you know announce and hit a target. I mean everyone would be shocked they hit a target but in a good way. Then all those negative comments on mmorpg sites don't appear. So this 4 or 5 times and the community I buoyant and spend more money, outsiders gain confidence and spend money and the game gets made...

Mysi Karuna - 3 months ago

So, am I correct in thinking the delay is with the information and selection tool(s), but the underlying graphical assets of the maps themselves are complete?

IMO, y'all should consider giving us a peek at the maps via PDF. They wouldn't need all the details, but at least enough so we can see the county lines and major rivers, roads, and settlement locations. Maybe rolled them out piecemeal for each kingdom, relative to the IP of each monarch? Would give the communities something else to talk about, at least.

grandad1982 - 3 months ago

This doesn't directly effect me but getting it right is correct decision.

What isn't right is constantly missing deadlines you publicly announce. It does you and the game no favors in terms of public image.

Like plenty of others have said, at this point just don't announce stuff till its ready to go or so close that it makes no difference.

Madame_Ventisette - 3 months ago

I agree and have tweeted to Soulbound Studios in the past. Complete everything!!! Then give a release notice knowing that everything is already done. Then when that date arrives things will go smoothly. If it isn't ready for me to use when you say it will be ready for me to use. Then I don't want to know. Information about game systems is different than access dates. Keep it close to your chest until you know that it has been done PLEASE!!!!

Valtar - 3 months ago

feelsbadman

Primus Dedumo - 3 months ago

Might I suggest that only putting out a release date after you have finished creation of a module. It’s better for the community to wait and knowingly have a polished product then scramble and fumbling it at the finish line.

Errors like this are easily avoided, yet can cause so much harm in the trust and integrity that you put so much effort to build up. It’s scenarios like this that people remember and a trinket is not the way to be solving these issues. Have internal planning and only schedule release after a product is tested and finished. Release it two weeks later so that any last minute tweaks you want to be done can be done as well as testing to ensure a quality product. You can work your asses off, but it’s not effective or efficient.

Good luck.

MilevanFaent - 3 months ago

To all the guys complaining about another delay, as I'm sure there are a few, they were DDoSed several times, and had a bunch of other EXTERNAL problems that delayed things. You literally can't say shit about this not being ready on time when they didn't even have control over that. It's also entirely stupid to expect a studio to have something ready over a month before they expect it to actually go out, as it is all but impossible to get anywhere CLOSE to that accurately predicting when a product will be done or when it needs to be done. This kind of shit is NORMAL, it's just SBS is actually TELLING you rather than keeping quiet on all the stuff they're working on, which to me is a huge improvement on the process as it lets us see what is actually happening rather than sitting with a year of nothing happening, even though tons happened.

RedDoggybone - 3 months ago
@MilevanFaent:

Posted By MilevanFaent at 12:42 AM - Mon May 06 2019

To all the guys complaining about another delay, as I'm sure there are a few, they were DDoSed several times, and had a bunch of other EXTERNAL problems that delayed things. You literally can't say shit about this not being ready on time when they didn't even have control over that. It's also entirely stupid to expect a studio to have something ready over a month before they expect it to actually go out, as it is all but impossible to get anywhere CLOSE to that accurately predicting when a product will be done or when it needs to be done. This kind of shit is NORMAL, it's just SBS is actually TELLING you rather than keeping quiet on all the stuff they're working on, which to me is a huge improvement on the process as it lets us see what is actually happening rather than sitting with a year of nothing happening, even though tons happened.

Just wanted to point out a few things.

"To all the guys complaining about another delay, as I'm sure there are a few, they were DDoSed several times, and had a bunch of other EXTERNAL problems that delayed things. You literally can't say shit about this not being ready on time when they didn't even have control over that"

-Great reasons why they should stop giving out dates until the product is done and tested. I mean "something" pretty much happens EVERY time they try to release something. Which is a bit strange in itself. At some point it starts sounding like "the dog ate my homework." Yes, they do have control over that. Stop pre-announcing things before they are done.

" It's also entirely stupid to expect a studio to have something ready over a month before they expect it to actually go out,"

-Are you kidding me? And why is that exactly? Have you ever heard of a game going "gold" before? The game goes "Gold" after it is completed and roughly a month before it is released. This is a super common practice and you have never heard of it or think it's stupid?

"as it is all but impossible to get anywhere CLOSE to that accurately predicting when a product will be done or when it needs to be done."

-So what exactly is the point of giving us release dates then? To piss us off? If SBS is NOT expecting to hit the release date, please tell me why they give one?

" rather than sitting with a year of nothing happening, even though tons happened."

I am not trying to be argumentive here but uhm can you explain what exactly these "tons of things that happened" are?

Yes it's true

We have some maps that are of a lesser grade than promised. Maps mind you. Not gameplay. Maps. And they were delayed and downgraded because the ones promised us were too....vexing for them to figure out. Just like these maps are proving to be.

We have a store that works fine.

We have a website thats mostly pretty good but I seem to remember that more was promised of it but I could be wrong on that point.

We have lots of conceptual drawings. And pretty pictures.

We have some mind craft like gifs to gaze at in wonder.

We have a bunch of theory crafting and well-written pieces of things that will be implemented into the game. But seeing they are having tons of problems getting "maps" to work raises doubts in my mind about more complex systems happening.

Did I mention the store?

We have several things that have been started, never completed, pushed way down the road, greatly changed or dropped entirely. Architect tool was promised years ago. Complete store with a lot more things we could buy also.

Various versions of pre-Elyria we have yet to see any of. The the one before this one replaced the one before because just before the release of that one they decided to make it even better. That one replaced the one before because they decided to make the one before even better at the last moment. They invited their friends and family to play the one before this one. Said we would be allowed in shortly. This went on for months before they said they were waiting for more content before they let us in. Then just before we were to be let in, they decided to drop that version because it was taking up too many resources for too little gain. WTF. Did it take them a year to figure that out? Think of all the time and effort wasted on that little project alone. Now, we are supposedly getting a lesser version of the last version I doubt we will.

Let us not forget how Spatial OS was going to save them loads of time and it was the best thing since white rice. Then, suddenly it was dropped. Amazingly once it was dropped,"well, it wasn't all that important anyway and we will be doing all the work ourselves and it won't delay us much. So which was the truth? Spatial was going to save them lots of time or it wasn't that important anyway?

Basic fighting vid was released and is now being redone. We were supposed to have picked are domains back in the beginning of the year and here we are 5 months later and it still dosn't work.

So what exactly is this "tons of stuff" you speak of?

Look, I am not saying they do everything wrong but at some point, you have to realize they are NOT doing this right and stop making up excuses for them when they totally are dropping the ball.

Madame_Ventisette - 3 months ago
@MilevanFaent:

Many players would rather they keep quiet about release dates if it isn't completed. Game stuff tell us about it. But "you can try it on this day...no you can't" is not a good look.

sagron - 3 months ago

This actually helps me out... I would have been unavailable for a week and a half around my original pick date, but will be free a couple days before my new date!

Zairick - 3 months ago

That's cool and glad you all are truly trying the best you can.

On a side note I think betting in store credit on if it gets delayed again or not could be fun XD.

Chronic - 3 months ago
@Zairick:

;P

Korvus - 3 months ago

This continuous delays thing is rather annoying. I understand delays happen in development and processing and everything you as a studio have going on; I really do.

I wish you could have all these dates you're promising us to have things delivered as your own, internal dates. Don't announce the launch of anything until it's in a state you're ready to launch at that announcement. Sure, have it ready at that announcement and then give the launch date a month later. This gives you a launch ready product plus a month of internal and super secret test groups to knock out bugs if you want.

Whatever you do, stop giving us dates of getting more of something we really, really, really want; and then saying "Woops, our bad! DDOS, bugs and biting off more than we could chew in this timeline caused us to not be able to give you a product we're happy with! Pinky promise, won't happen again, we learned our lesson!"

And then, next time, it happens again. It's a rinse and repeat cycle and it's something I personally am getting burnt out of seeing. I don't want to see this game fail, it's why I backed. This type of game is something many, many people want to see succeed.

Stop failing us, we are doing our best on our end to support you on the road to success.

Riptose - 3 months ago

Will there be a new batch of forum email going out to confirm the dates? cause a week mean 7 days and that would push me from Tuesday to a Monday! or does the day of the week stay the same?

Syzzyr - 3 months ago
@Riptose:

Posted By Riptose at 9:23 PM - Sun May 05 2019

Will there be a new batch of forum email going out to confirm the dates? cause a week mean 7 days and that would push me from Tuesday to a Monday! or does the day of the week stay the same?

hmmm, and here I have been using the wrong amount of days for a "week" all my life. Who knew?

Miothadil - 3 months ago

Thank you Vye, for that explanation. I know this must have been hard for everyone at sbs as well.

I hope you will still be able to make it down this far into the thread, as some comments will undoubtedly not make for very pleasant reading. But I wanted to let my own voice be heard and tell you all that noone in my community wants to see you fail nor do many many others out there. We want to play this game and we want it done right. Around the clock our members pop in and chat about CoE and discuss the lives we would lead together with excited newcomers. And it hurts for us to see things go down like this. Especially when things are built up only to lead to disappointment once again.

We have no desire for you all to work yourself half to death trying to rush a product out only to knock yourselves and us down again when you fail. We want it done right, preferably with you all still alive and motivated. ;)

I would have loved for this announcement to have been made on Friday. After Caspian's statement it was pretty obvious that you could not possibly be expected to resolve all 3 incomplete branches and properly test it all before Monday in just a weekend. You must have known this yourselves as well and I would have applauded calling it then and there. Instead we were left in limbo of uncertainty yet again, our hopes and trust in your commitment fighting past experiences. We had some pretty stressed out dukes this evening. And it's just not a very pleasant place to be in for any of us.

And now we have a pushback of a week. One I completely agree with, yet as several others here have already mentioned I would like it if you all take a moment to consider if you can honestly say it will be done then. If you can't right now, then please push it back until you are sure you can. I know some bravely call for "When it's done", but we all know people will want to know something at least. And given how hard you all have been working on it now you must have a pretty good idea of how long it will actually take realistically. By all means give an internal for next friday and lay down however much whip you need on the teams to get it done by then. (Do keep them alive tho, we need them a bit longer still) But give us the spaceously padded date that you KNOW you will make in anything short of the building burning down. Then if all goes well you could still announce on Friday that you made it after all and if not, well no harm done, as you didn't promise you could.

We all like to look forward to the next thing, it's in our nature. While I realise there is sooo much more to CoE and internally this might have seemed like a blip on the todo list, we do view these as significant milestones on our elyrian road. And while being fuzzy about the rest of the yearly and longterm goals is fine, the "next thing" should always be treated clearly and placed firmly to respect that.

These are times for the community to look forward to. You have to make a little show of them, their date safely padded beyond a shadow of a doubt well in advance. Releasing early is never a problem, everyone likes pleasant surprises. While delays bum everyone out and lead to more frustrated outbursts and hair pulling. And close wallets on anything but the fanatic.

Release early or "on time"(internally late, but hey we don't care cause you kept your promise to us) and all of us will have a much more pleasant experience. Stimulating sales and building reputation which will inspire confidence and attract more newcomers.

For DSS this went wrong starting at the end of last year. When it was said near the end of a rocky but ultimately succesful map voting that DSS would somehow commence before the end of the year. Which was folly, even before the community pointed out the holidays. And I still don't know what prompted that delusion. As you knew full well that was impossible, especially evident now, six months later. If it was a sales tactic for much needed cash I want to point out that these tactics do come at a cost... your reputation. Which has finite credit, and we still have a long way to go on that tank before it can get a refill. There are better ways, maximise our happiness don't exploit our sadness.

Others will no doubt bring up the disappearance till february, the early april that became late April, that you announced couldn't be made the day before. And now this. For the record, I predicted May at the earliest at the end of December. Also neatly coinciding around kickstarterversary. That seemed the obvious safe call. I'm not sure why you couldn't?

Anyway, please continue to talk to us, sharing with us, be honest with us and safely pad the "next thing" well in advance when you sure you can. And just don't if you can't be sure with even a generous buffer yet.

Hoping to see some changes and thanking everyone at sbs for their commitment and hard work. And wishing a bright and happy Elyrian future,

Mio

Loyheta - 3 months ago

Understandable. Hopefully it won't be pushed back any more than that because that is dangerously close to me moving. Hopefully everything goes smoothly for everyone.

Gunnlang - 3 months ago

I didn't see anything about the maps release in that post, can I assume that has also been pushed back? Or will they be released tomorrow as planned?

As I said last time, I hope in a week it doesn't get delayed all over. I just really wish you would bloody learn at some given point. It's just sad that you never do. Becoming a joke, at this rate.

I don't think anyone cares about waiting for everything to run as smooth as possible. But saying this "it's coming at X date". "No sorry it's been delayed" "Sorry we got a delay on a delay". Complete the bloody work, then talk about the date. It's really simple.

Scuttle - 3 months ago

I'm not surprised, and I'm admittedly a bit disappointed, but in the end it'll be better that they delayed it instead of releasing something half-assed. It would have been considerate to make this announcement earlier for all of the players that took valuable vacation time from work or rearranged their busy schedules to guarantee their availability during their picking window, but that's the only complaint I really have. Looking forward to next week.

CountShady - 3 months ago

I have zero confidence that a week will be sufficient if you are still programming stuff even as of today.

Do the right thing... Delay it, And then surprise us with an announcement when you are actually ready to go.

Its not like you havent had many decades of examples to learn from with the Announcement of Dates and stuff not being ready yet you keep making the same mistakes over and over when it comes to deadlines.

STOP GIVING DATES UNTIL STUFF IS READY READY... NOT MAYBE READY

Aemon_Blackfyre - 3 months ago

Although disappointing, and honestly predictable, I wish you all at SBS the best and can't wait to see the maps once you are finished! Much prefer the maps pushed back and done right.

Beathan - 3 months ago

I like this solution rather than (1) rushing it and (2) having a differently staggered start date.

And if I have my character play a doctor, I will only treat characters properly labeled as “the Patient.”

Thanks.

Sir Zyr - 3 months ago

Ddos attack? That's a surprise.

Still, better to get it right than release early and buggy

Dyrnwyn - 3 months ago

"They" do not speak for all. SBS has continued to deliver quality, and I not only appreciate it but prefer it. SBS does not need to apologize for doing their job which includes troubleshooting and adjusting development deadlines.

Making decisions about deadlines and evaluating realistic estimates is part of the creative process during game development. Any other game only needs to make one deadline (when they are comfortable announcing it)--Launch Date. They do not involve the community in any part of the development before Launch.

As part of realistic creative development, players should be reasonable not antagonistic. I will be ignoring the irrational rants and demands.

Quite frankly, the duchies and counties have enough information to pick right now. It doesn't matter that the map isn't complete in every detail. The allotments are not the same size nor will have the same resources, but we know what tribes and biomes they are in and what approximately they may have. Demanding more than that is what is slowing down the process.

Gunnlang - 3 months ago
@Dyrnwyn:

Posted By Dyrnwyn at 11:22 AM - Mon May 06 2019

Quite frankly, the duchies and counties have enough information to pick right now.

Just a curious question, how do you suppose counts have enough to pick, when we don't even have county lines?

Madame_Ventisette - 3 months ago
@Gunnlang:

I wish I could plus one this comment.

RedDoggybone - 3 months ago
@Dyrnwyn:

Posted By Dyrnwyn at 9:22 PM - Sun May 05 2019

"They" do not speak for all. SBS has continued to deliver quality, and I not only appreciate it but prefer it. SBS does not need to apologize for doing their job which includes troubleshooting and adjusting development deadlines.

Making decisions about deadlines and evaluating realistic estimates is part of the creative process during game development. Any other game only needs to make one deadline (when they are comfortable announcing it)--Launch Date. They do not involve the community in any part of the development before Launch.

As part of realistic creative development, players should be reasonable not antagonistic. I will be ignoring the irrational rants and demands.

Quite frankly, the duchies and counties have enough information to pick right now. It doesn't matter that the map isn't complete in every detail. The allotments are not the same size nor will have the same resources, but we know what tribes and biomes they are in and what approximately they may have. Demanding more than that is what is slowing down the process.

Slight difference here. We did not demand more than that. We were promised more than that. The problem is not that they are late. The problem is they are failing on their promises that they made themselves without any coaxing from us. The issue is STOP PROMISING THINGS YOU CAN"T DELIVER!. If they would stop doing this one simple thing no one would be upset with them. As others have said, this was promised to us back in December. What happened to pre-Elyria? The 3 different versions of it we were promised and that we have yet to see any of them? Sooner or later SBS has to show some sort of accountability for promises never kept.

Gunnlang said, "I didn't see anything about the maps release in that post, can I assume that has also been pushed back? Or will they be released tomorrow as planned?"

Please correct me if I am wrong but I could of sworn Caspian said in the thread last week it was delayed because the maps are taking longer then expected to upload.

Lira - 3 months ago

Better done right and released after a minor delay, than wrong and be a botched job.

DSS is huge, and I'd rather wait for when you feel comfortable as a studio to release it, than for you to release unfinished work because of a... vocal (to put it nicely) community.

Umanim - 3 months ago

<3

GenWashington - 3 months ago

Since this is just a website issue, then the very generic map, made with stamps and crayon that you should have released a week ago will undoubtedly be released today...right?

Virpio - 3 months ago

You guys got this

Taryl - 3 months ago

There would be massive chaos if Domain and Settlement selection was stuffed up. It is the right decision to make certain that does not happen.

Explaining the issues is the right move at this stage, but the effect of delays is corrosive. We want the game to succeed, not to watch others complaining and becoming disillusioned.

And the people attacking the servers can go feed a Canis Rabbit.

TyrusStormwolf - 3 months ago

I'm fine with the brief delay, especially as you indicate the maps are going to be getting improved. Any reason we can't see the maps as they stand now? Any additional improvement to what was presented at map selection time will be interesting and exciting.

Blackbobb - 3 months ago

Yeah no heartburn here with a delay. D&SS is too important to wing it with a half baked product.

I do however we wish we would stay away from hard dates until stuff is through test.

Just get the maps out as soon as they are done for people to salivate over with their communities and the functional stuff can take as long as it needs to.

Glosterian - 3 months ago
@Blackbobb:

This. Totally agree - Sbs, we really love your game's concept and your commitment. Just please, don't give fixed dates until everything's tested as much as possible...

Kerlem - 3 months ago

Has it occurred to you that maybe delaying the announcement of start dates for, say, three months might be more beneficial to your reputation than these repeated pushbacks?

ZorTir - 3 months ago

As disappointing as this is to hear/see, I do think it was the correct course of action to push out a quality product a week or so later instead of a shitty product on time.

The one thing I think could have been done better is to make this type of announcement a bit earlier.

Trug - 3 months ago

Definitely glad that DSS is on hold until the kinks get worked out, I think a buggy DSS would have massive follow-on effects, all bad.

That said, I'd echo a lot of the sentiment here when I ask that SBS please, please stop publishing any dates or estimates until you know for a fact that everything is ready to roll on that date. Otherwise it's just going to keep fanning the flames whenever something like this happens.

zimmah - 3 months ago

Do we at least get to see the maps before the 13th?

Polite - 3 months ago

Can't blame you guys. Thanks for striving for quality and no problem waiting for me :)

ZigSmash - 3 months ago

Thanks for letting us know and for striving for quality. I'm sure there is no one that wants to see this thing through more than the SBS crew.

Abigor - 3 months ago

I guess question is - how sure is sbs that this delay for a week is enough? if you were sure you would start d&ss on 29th as expected, then there was a need for a delay "only" for a week, now we have another delay "only" for a week, should we expect the same next week?

Sildadia - 3 months ago

And thus began another week of bitching that doesn't change anything and people being stressed and angry over that which they have zero influence on... enjoy the ride on the impotent fury express everyone.

Airidal - 3 months ago

Thank you for the update and being willing to do what is necessary.
I'd rather we wait another month if necessary if that's what it takes for things to be working properly and for everyone to have the intended information to make educated decisions. This is extremely significance and will help shape our initial game play so I'd rather wait longer than get something incomplete or worse just because some folks are being impatient and not looking at the bigger picture.

Valycia - 3 months ago

oof

RedDoggybone - 3 months ago

Please, I hope you have learned your lesson and stop annoucing things BEFORE they are done and tested. You just keep shooting yourself in the foot every time you dont.

Marovec - 3 months ago
@RedDoggybone:

Posted By RedDoggybone at 8:16 PM - Sun May 05 2019

Please, I hope you have learned your lesson and stop annoucing things BEFORE they are done and tested. You just keep shooting yourself in the foot every time you dont.

Obviously they haven't learned...they just did it again...

RedDoggybone - 3 months ago
@Marovec:

Posted By Marovec at 8:19 PM - Sun May 05 2019

Posted By RedDoggybone at 8:16 PM - Sun May 05 2019

Please, I hope you have learned your lesson and stop annoucing things BEFORE they are done and tested. You just keep shooting yourself in the foot every time you dont.

Obviously they haven't learned...they just did it again...

I did notice that. Sigh. What are they going to say when they miss next week? I suspect what's going to happen is eventually there going to delay it past the kickstartversary. That might be for the best. But I would be pissed if they did that and I were a king.

Maddonach - 3 months ago
@RedDoggybone:

Posted By RedDoggybone at 8:16 PM - Sun May 05 2019

Please, I hope you have learned your lesson and stop annoucing things BEFORE they are done and tested. You just keep shooting yourself in the foot every time you dont.

I would of thought that lesson was learned already, but nope.

The Bear - 3 months ago

Pretty frustrating, but understandable, thanks for all the hard work you guys are doing and can't wait for the day we're in game, this is just one little setback towards that eventual moment <3

Ironside - 3 months ago

Thanks for the update! —when it’s ready. It will be ready.

Marovec - 3 months ago

Only one week, eh?

Not "We are delaying it until it is done and tested?"

You guys really don't learn do you?

DracoKalen - 3 months ago
@Marovec:

Posted By Marovec at 8:10 PM - Sun May 05 2019

Only one week, eh?

Not "We are delaying it until it is done and tested?"

You guys really don't learn do you?

They are delaying it a week so they CAN test it. Says so right in the article.

"In theory, we could open the site later this week, but we would be doing so knowing there is little time to comprehensively test the integration of the myriad elements that are still coming together even today. "

Marovec - 3 months ago
@DracoKalen:

Posted By DracoKalen at 07:59 AM - Mon May 06 2019

Posted By Marovec at 8:10 PM - Sun May 05 2019

Only one week, eh?

Not "We are delaying it until it is done and tested?"

You guys really don't learn do you?

They are delaying it a week so they CAN test it. Says so right in the article.

"In theory, we could open the site later this week, but we would be doing so knowing there is little time to comprehensively test the integration of the myriad elements that are still coming together even today. "

As others have pointed out, and I have tried repeatedly to make clear myself:

This. Is. Not. About. The. Delay.

I have lobbied furiously that instead of these "pseudo delays" so far, with bastardized monarch selections, they simply push it back until the whole thing is done and then release it.

I am fine with "it's done when it is done" - I have said that for years!

What my issue has been, and continues to be, is that they are STILL putting out "hard dates" without the work/testing actually being done.

This is not the first time, it's not the 10th time. For some reason, it is a pattern of behavior they refuse to learn from. As though "they" (I say that loosely, since I am fairly confident it is one person making these calls) think that doing this is somehow a good thing.

If the DSS portal isn't done and tested yet, then how can they know it will be ready next Monday?

How is that date any more accurate than the "early April" date?

How is it any more accurate than the "April 29th" date?

How is it any more accurate that the "May 6th" date?

Once more for the cheap seats: This isn't about the delay. This is about their stubborn refusal to adjust the method in which they communicate external dates with the community (what they do internally, frankly, I do not really care about - do whatever works for them).

Seriously, this is getting absurd. I can't even begin to imagine the reaction if, for whatever reason, they miss the deadline again next week.

Anyway, I actually feel a bit bad for the team - I wish them the best.

Hieronymus - 3 months ago
@Marovec:

Posted By Marovec at 7:10 PM - Sun May 05 2019

Only one week, eh?

Not "We are delaying it until it is done and tested?"

I don't disagree, but so long as they're willing to push it back if it's not fully functional and fully tested, then we can just view this as a target date. It makes no difference in the end, does it? I'm relieved that they did not forge ahead with a broken system just to hit a date.

zimmah - 3 months ago
@Hieronymus:

Posted By Hieronymus at 7:22 PM - Sun May 05 2019

Posted By Marovec at 7:10 PM - Sun May 05 2019

Only one week, eh?

Not "We are delaying it until it is done and tested?"

I don't disagree, but so long as they're willing to push it back if it's not fully functional and fully tested, then we can just view this as a target date. It makes no difference in the end, does it? I'm relieved that they did not forge ahead with a broken system just to hit a date.

It does make a difference, it hurts their public image, which hurts sales, which hurts their wallet, which slows development.

Posted By Dyrnwyn at 8:22 PM - Sun May 05 2019

"They" do not speak for all. SBS has continued to deliver quality, and I not only appreciate it but prefer it. SBS does not need to apologize for doing their job which includes troubleshooting and adjusting development deadlines.

Making decisions about deadlines and evaluating realistic estimates is part of the creative process during game development. Any other game only needs to make one deadline (when they are comfortable announcing it)--Launch Date. They do not involve the community in any part of the development before Launch.

As part of realistic creative development, players should be reasonable not antagonistic. I will be ignoring the irrational rants and demands.

Quite frankly, the duchies and counties have enough information to pick right now. It doesn't matter that the map isn't complete in every detail. The allotments are not the same size nor will have the same resources, but we know what tribes and biomes they are in and what approximately they may have. Demanding more than that is what is slowing down the process.

The county lines aren’t even drawn, how the hell do counties pick when there aren’t even counties drawn on the map? Let alone having any information about demographics and resources? Not to mention settlements, roads and waterways.

We have nowhere near enough information to pick our domains.

Also, no one said SbS needed to set deadlines, in fact, most of us keep telling SbS that they should only mention deadlines for products that are already finished or close to finished (in testing stage basically). That way they don’t need to miss deadlines.

We want SbS to succeed, but they won’t succeed if they don’t learn from their mistakes. And just closing your eyes to mistakes is not helpful at all. Accept the fact that you made a mistake, learn from it and adapt. That’s the only way you actually get something good out of it. If you keep denying that you make mistakes you will only keep shooting your self in the foot forever. Admitting fault can be painful, but it’s necessary.

It’s funny how a peasant like you is complaining that we counts and dukes should not “slow down” DSS by picking with limited information, even though it is not our fault the maps are delayed, and there is absolutely no rush to pick a domain, it’s not like the game will be released later just because we pick a domain later. And at the same time you complain that we are impatient.

We should not be forced to pick before we get the information we were promised.

Posted By Riptose at 9:23 PM - Sun May 05 2019

Will there be a new batch of forum email going out to confirm the dates? cause a week mean 7 days and that would push me from Tuesday to a Monday! or does the day of the week stay the same?

What the fuck? How does your calendar work? A week has 7 days dude, everything will be the same, same day, same time, same position in queue, just exactly 1 week later.

Posted By MilevanFaent at 11:42 PM - Sun May 05 2019

To all the guys complaining about another delay, as I'm sure there are a few, they were DDoSed several times, and had a bunch of other EXTERNAL problems that delayed things. You literally can't say shit about this not being ready on time when they didn't even have control over that. It's also entirely stupid to expect a studio to have something ready over a month before they expect it to actually go out, as it is all but impossible to get anywhere CLOSE to that accurately predicting when a product will be done or when it needs to be done. This kind of shit is NORMAL, it's just SBS is actually TELLING you rather than keeping quiet on all the stuff they're working on, which to me is a huge improvement on the process as it lets us see what is actually happening rather than sitting with a year of nothing happening, even though tons happened.

DDoS is unfortunate, but a DDoS alone shouldn’t delay something by a full month (or more depending on how you count). Also, the maps aren’t being rendered on the website, so the DDoS should have nothing to do with the delay (tests should be run on internal servers, maps are rendered on servers unrelated to their website, not even owned by SbS).

Also, all of that is irrelevant because SbS shouldn’t have given us any dates in the first place, never give a date to a product that isn’t even close to being finished

For extra clarity:

do not post dates to things that still need to be developed.

only give dates to things that are basically done and in final stages of testing. Or to which at least a minimum viable product exists.

Hieronymus - 3 months ago

Smart decision. :)

As much as I know you want to hit these dates, launching this event without a fully functional and fully tested system is not only unwise but simply unfair to the people that have gotten the studio here and who've put their faith in your decision-making.

Bradtastic - 3 months ago

Bumper, praying for you guys.

Ezicc - 3 months ago

I'm not surprised, however I am also not disappointed, it's the right decision taken for the right reason, personally I still believe this should have been the initial decision, to delay the entirety of D&SS until the maps were visible to all.

Ser Long - 3 months ago

You pushed it back 5 MONTHS "due to holidays". Now you have to push it back AGAIN! Why are we funding you?

Heartagram - 3 months ago
@Ser Long:

Posted By Ser Long at 01:09 AM - Mon May 06 2019

You pushed it back 5 MONTHS "due to holidays". Now you have to push it back AGAIN! Why are we funding you?

^this. They are lying to us about the whole development.

Lennox - 3 months ago
@Ser Long:

I am funding them cause I believe the game will be awsome once it is finished. As long as they are working towards that goal I am getting what I am playing for.

Draguta - 3 months ago

I am sorry this step had to be necessary. I hope things go well this week and in the future so that delays like this will no linger be needed. Thank you for continuing to try!

Kerzic - 3 months ago

Can we at least get the more detailed maps, even if only in PDF format?

Blackmore - 3 months ago

reeeeeee

SenmortaVostojin - 3 months ago

<3 Thanks for letting us know what's going on, I for one appreciate it even if it means I have to earn my new "title".

  • "The Patient" Senmorta Vostojin
Lord_Greystoke - 3 months ago

2 weeks late now.

You should be ashamed at your company's incompetence

TheCoz - 3 months ago
@Lord_Greystoke:

Posted By Lord_Greystoke at 5:08 PM - Sun May 05 2019

2 weeks late now.

You should be ashamed at your company's incompetence

TF is the matter with you?

Go back to supporting EA if you want "competence".

Lord_Greystoke - 3 months ago
@TheCoz:

Posted By TheCoz at 11:34 AM - Fri May 10 2019

Posted By Lord_Greystoke at 5:08 PM - Sun May 05 2019

2 weeks late now.

You should be ashamed at your company's incompetence

TF is the matter with you?

Go back to supporting EA if you want "competence".

Incompetence; The inability to do something successfully; ineptitude.

Tell us again how many times SBS has been UNSUCCESSFUL with getting the maps done within the time-frame in which SBS set, and how many times the maps have been delayed?

Then reread the definition of incompetence again until it sinks in.

Less emotion, more critical thinking and Logic.

MilevanFaent - 3 months ago
@Lord_Greystoke:

Go start a company developing video games. Make a note of every time something got done on time, or was delayed, and by how much. Come back to me when you have a list of basically everything being delayed, sometimes for weeks. Because you will. So go take your negative attitude out of our game.

Calian - 3 months ago

I love sbs because as always you can feel that they always strive to give us the best, but if this came as a shock to anyone, they clearly don't follow the development of CoE

Labbe - 3 months ago

I wish nothing but the best for the team at SbS working on this project

<3

Tarvald - 3 months ago

Could a Dev reply.

So will you be sending out updated pick times? I understand the time doesn't change such as 8AM, but the date.

Thanks for the reply.

Labbe - 3 months ago
@Tarvald:

Posted By Tarvald at 5:06 PM - Sun May 05 2019

Could a Dev reply.

So will you be sending out updated pick times? I understand the time doesn't change such as 8AM, but the date.

Thanks for the reply.

I understand you are asking for a dev to reply, but we got it confirmed previously. Any updated times will be visible on the site when the DSS page goes live.

Tarvald - 3 months ago
@Labbe:

Thanks Labbe.

VioletWinterlynn - 3 months ago

Thank you, I would prefer it to be perfect and appreciate everything and all you guys are doing.