yay it's server!
Dear Soulbound Studios,
*This is a post made by multiple community members opinions. *
As fans ,and supporters of the concept of Chronicles of Elyria, we want nothing except for it to be fully implemented and released. No other game has promised what you have and we are absolutely genuinely excited for it.
However, as fans, there has been some recent notable discourse between the community ,and SBS at times so this forum post was drafted up to discuss some key issues that quite a few community members have with recent events. This is should not be taken as a letter of complaint, we hope for the criticism to be constructive, in the hopes that it can allay the problems that have developed recently between yourselves and the community.
Below is a list of what we believe to be issues that hamper the game, the community and the studio. It must be reiterated, these are not merely complaints, we want things to change for the better, for all parties here. Dealing with, or at least addressing these issues would go a long way towards restoring some of the faith in the studio/game.
1) There is the issue of dates being given out, only to have them be wrong and the community given vague phrases related to releases of content, like "next few days" or "soon". This leads to a great uncertainty, along with unwarranted hype and is emotionally taxing on the community. This is not only damaging in the short term regarding events before launch, it will only compound up to and during the launch of Chronicles of Elyria. With the advent of DSS approaching we do believe that people will be coming back in droves to experience the Settlement selection that was planned out for them ,and many should be satiated after the conclusion for DSS for quite some time. However in future events we would hope to see less hype if well..there is nothing that we should be hyped for (ie: if by in the next few days it really wont be the next few days.) The no dates has helped greatly ,but there still is the ongoing issue with giving out soft dates such as within the next few days or weeks rather then a hard date such as August, 14, 2019. With that being said with DSS development seemingly is coming to close we hope DSS goes well for the community ,and cannot wait to pick our areas.
2) Unreleased projects, such as the character creation system that was promised to be released, but somehow never appeared and seem to be forgotten about as there has been no further mention of such things. This gives the illusion that certain features or plans have been delayed or cancelled, and lessens the willingness of the community to invest emotion or money towards the game, considering segments and/or promises may be scrapped and forgotten at any time.
3) Some items in the shop have regional requirements and these requirements are not properly expressed (ie, things like regional animals or the orchards) It all too often leads to people buying the wrong thing because the info they need is not easily found regarding what animal or tree requires what area(s) to thrive. These things should at least say in the descriptions what what biomes they work in as opposed to yet another classification system (mild, temperate, etc.) Or hopefully we can see a full write-up about the animals needs when selling new pets/animals. Same with a more clear indicator of which biomes crops/seeds will grow.
4) When dates were given out for domain and settlement selection and then withdrawn and the even delayed, no email or notification was given outside of the forum post/discord to those who have a vested interest in the event. This leads to other issues involving moderation, such as "bringing up events already spoken about" when people recieved no notice and come to the official discord to find out what has happened. It is not only frustrating as a community to try and let others know what happened, essentially having to explain the actions of the development team, and getting punished each time they have to do so on behalf of the studio and the community.
5) The new moderation policy, both on the official discord and the website. The current system seems to only allow for praise and nothing else, any type of negative feedback or expression of feelings that are not one hundred positive and make it a toxic environment where people are afraid to voice any dissenting opinion. Either in chat or via memes, the community needs an outlet in a public environment to vent, otherwise, small enclaves of trolls and problem players will arise who will attempt to undermine moderation policies, leading to even more overuse of moderation capabilities.
6) Caspians actions when given negative feedback on the official discord from the player base. Acts of aggression against investors, though only written, do not reflect well on the studio, team, game and community. While his endeavor is greatly supported, he should understand that as players/investors, we are frustrated, worried and confused often when incidents occur when Caspian may lash out towards community members of any standing. I do have to say within the last month/ month ,and half issues like this occurring have lessened ,and we are glad to see that. I have faith in Caspian's vision ,and I feel as if he will be able to make one of the best games I hope to one day play.
7) The recent Twitter post refers or gives off the impression that the whole of DSS has only been worked on for two months. "two months of work on DSS", when the work should have started in December as stated by the studio previously.
* Caspians quote "It took almost two months to create four unique worlds, each made up of over 2 million acres of land, spanning 16 different biomes and home to several thousands of settlements. But it's all been worth it to see these worlds come to life."*
However he does clarify this with another post afterwards
"In case anyone points out that the launch of D&SS took longer than 2 months, let me be clear: from March until July I've spent about 2 man months engineering the world generation of the 4 servers. That doesn't count designer, web, or content work. Just my engineering effort."
The issue to be had was that the way DSS was presented to the community was that it was being worked on well in advance of March. However from what it seems that most of the work began in March. So Decembers delay may have been for the holiday ,but they did not really have anything to show for it if they did.
The way it was handled saying we could of ,but we switched due to the holidays rather then it still needs some time to be improved ,and worked on has reduced trust in the company regarding when work has begun on a project or not. Situations as this reduce confidence in the studio when you say something is being worked on. Many just want more transparency even if the truth is not always the brightest. The Soul bound community is a strong one ,and despite popular belief among staff many would understand if things were going to be delayed. Or if something inst quite finished,and just needs more time. However I can guarantee Almost All hate it when things like this switcheroo happens ,and it feels like someone is pulling the wool over there eyes.
Those are the main issues regarding the staff/development team. The game is promising. There are however, a few slight problems that may not have been foreseen in regards to the following in game mechanics:
1) The blood-lust mechanic is broken because it gives too much advantage to the attackers and encourages zerging instead of tactical planned combat. The spirit loss mitigation is a bonus rather than a penalty reduction. This also complicates the problems of raiding vs. pitched battles, with people spamming raids to wear down a settlements defense and then declare a pitched battle. There should be a reevaluation of the greater battle system.
2) Ancestral lands are too tied to the will of kings that could 'revoke' the right to own the lands, too easy for tyrants to crop up. It may also hinder some settlement growth in limited cases in which someone buys land surrounding said settlement and refuses to incorporate any parcels, essentially killing further growth. That being said AL is a heavily debated topic. It has many PROS for Gentry players who now have a safer community ,and CONS for Aristocracy ,and Nobility players depending on which camp you are in is generally how you feel.
3) The incorporated land system is broken ,and has the potential for abuse by allowing mayors to become monopolies that decide who can even run against them in elections, if they have enough shares in the system. The system allows mayors who own a majority of shares to cast votes against those wishing to join the voting pool, in essence, locking out competition and creating said monopoly.
4) The change in the landmasses of the servers between the stylized map and the rendered map. Biomes were swapped, mountains moved, etc. Some variation is always to be expected, but we voted based on the stylized maps, not the rendered maps. This leads to the community not knowing what can or will change, with or without notice regarding choices that were, before the maps were generated, ill-informed.
In closing
We hope that you will take the time to respond to our comments and maybe consider the concerns of community members that were involved in this post ,and those who may agree with it, there is no ill will, we just want to see this game come out and be the best it possibly can be.
You've done some good work, we want to see more of that and only hope that the game continues without further delay or trouble, is implemented fully and has a longer than expected life.
With that being said I hope people can put forth there opinions ,and if they have constructive thoughts to this post or if there was an issue you felt like needed to be brought up ,but wasn't addressed. To please do so.
I only ask you do so in a constructive way so we can continue a dialogue rather then shutting out the potential for solutions for issues that do exist that can be found through the consideration of the Soul bound staff.
Also if you felt like you may disagree with this post as well please share your thoughts ,and reasoning as well! This post lightly touched on a few topics that can be very deep in depth.
Thank you all for your time ,and consideration.
Great work @Server. All nicely put together.
It's dead, Jim.
This pretty much covers most of the issues that plague the community. Each point has been mentioned by various community members. And you know I hope it is addressed.
I feel like the community is looking for too much back and forward between themselves and the studio for an unfinished product. People will always find something broken. Let the game be playable before we spend time talking about something we can't see or experience. It's just slowing down production even more. If it's their free time and they want to chat with the community that's one thing but some of the talks in discord were just a waste of time during working hours. Like the chat about not giving dates in for projects, we didn't need to talk about that and people complained about it everywhere. Why take up more time?
Posted By Server at
5) The new moderation policy, both on the official discord and the website. The current system seems to only allow for praise and nothing else, any type of negative feedback or expression of feelings that are not one hundred positive and make it a toxic environment where people are afraid to voice any dissenting opinion. Either in chat or via memes, the community needs an outlet in a public environment to vent, otherwise, small enclaves of trolls and problem players will arise who will attempt to undermine moderation policies, leading to even more overuse of moderation capabilities.
Yeah, no. The community was turning toxic because of the complete lack of respect shown to the developers. This is their house, we are guests in it, and it's about time they stood up for themselves.
There is a big difference from making personal attacks against the developers and constructive criticism. Being passionate about your stance on what should be going on, or putting money into funding this game, does not give you the right to belittle and disrespect them, in any way. This is their game, their forum, their discord server. You do not have the freedom to say whatever you feel like. If you ignore that then it's only fair that you are punished for it.
Since the new policy, the developers have been able to be much more open and free to speak, which is something we should all be happy about.
If you feel strongly against what I've said than maybe you need to reexamine your motives. What do you really hope to accomplish through the name calling and attempts to undermine the progress of the game?
5) The new moderation policy, both on the official discord and the website. The current system seems to only allow for praise and nothing else, any type of negative feedback or expression of feelings that are not one hundred positive and make it a toxic environment where people are afraid to voice any dissenting opinion. Either in chat or via memes, the community needs an outlet in a public environment to vent, otherwise, small enclaves of trolls and problem players will arise who will attempt to undermine moderation policies, leading to even more overuse of moderation capabilities.
There aren't many points I as a moderator could reply to, with the exception of this one.
First and foremost, I am sorry you feel that way, but that is not the environment the policy is supposed to create. But allow me to elaborate our stance on it, and maybe then we could have a constructive discussion on how to improve this policy.
(Disclaimer: I would like to note that we do not allow discussing moderation or administrative action taken, so let's keep this one on a meta level and only discuss the policy itself)
Originally, this policy was formed due to two major parties sending us complaints regarding the state of the community.
The most important party here is the studio itself. We had reached a point where studio members no longer felt welcome in their own community.
Secondly, while there are people that feel "silenced" on their negative voice now, back then there were people that felt silenced whenever they would say anything positive.
So what does this leave? A group of people that wishes to express their negativity (I know negativity is very much a blanket statement, because there are definitely people that voice valid concerns, but that does not take away that it is negative).
Which brings us to the new policy. The new policy was intended a way of saying "Stop saying the same negative thing over and over again, drowning out all other conversation.", or as the internet has come to know this concept; "Circle-jerking". We knew from the very beginning when establishing this rule that it would be very difficult to enforce due to it being a very subjective rule. But we knew it was a policy we had to introduce, because if we had to choose between studio+positivity and negativity, I think it was an easy choice to make. I don't think I need to explain that part here.
On a similar note, and I think it's important that while we do want to welcome constructive criticism in our community, there are definitely people in our community that are negative for the sake of negativity, endlessly spouting the same thing over and over again. This is not constructive. These forums are often a much better platform for constructive feedback as you don't end up having to repeat yourself over and over again.
In the end we have a very passionate community here, this thread too only shows that very fact. But that passion can go both ways, both in a positive and negative way. If anyone has a good idea on how we can approach this policy in such a way that we allow both positivity and negativity, without either drowning out the other, we'd love to hear. Don't hesitate to reach out to us (the mod team) with this feedback.
And to add on a more individual note, for everyone that feels affected by this policy. If you do end up getting moderated in a way that you disagree with, it never hurts to reach out to another moderator to have them have a second look. The moderator team, while we often discuss things before taking action, are not an echo chamber, we make mistakes too. But don't expect this to be a workaround, often we do agree with each other, but a second look never hurts. And I would like to stress that you can ask for this no matter who the "initial moderator" is.
Thank you for starting this thread, and I'm sorry I can't reply to most of your points, but let's ensure we keep this discussion constructive, thanks.
Thank you for delaying DSS for another week, since Caspian will now be forced to think about your comments and has no time anymore to finish DSS. Was this really necessary NOW?
Posted By Kant at 4:26 PM - Wed Jul 31 2019
Thank you for delaying DSS for another week, since Caspian will now be forced to think about your comments and has no time anymore to finish DSS. Was this really necessary NOW?
It is really sad that the worst thing that you can do these days is to tell someone the truth.
If any CEO delays release of THE most important "product of the year" because of a forum post that simply enumerates this CEO's historical failures and misleading propaganda, then such CEO should step down and give the leadership position to someone more mature and resilient.
It's dead, Jim.
Posted By Ravenlute at 6:02 PM - Wed Jul 31 2019
Since the new policy, the developers have been able to be much more open and free to speak, which is something we should all be happy about.
While SBS should be able to feel they can talk more open. This policy isn't the best one. I feel it's irony that it's all about "don't create an echo chamber". While the mods/SBS then silence anyone that doesn't share a positive views.
I have seen many people over the last few months, basically told via Serpentius to leave if they don't like it there. Telling backers to leave, also not the best way to do things. Better to try to deal with their concerns. Over just pushing them out the door. While many people, have come in once, to vent their frustration at how things are going. Not like they are there everyday doing the same things. Seems like anyone being negative/showing their dislike for something, have all been thrown in the same group together. While doesn't matter if it's their first time speaking up or not. Which is truly unfair way to do things.
Which in turn, creates the very echo chamber SBS supposedly doesn't want. If anyone feels they can't talk about anything negative, for fear the mods will come down onto them.
As an example. I was speaking with a few people about an subject, no one was in true agreement and we were all given a warning. For talking in an "echo chamber". Yet, I had not seen anyone talk about this subject in question before. The cherry on the cake was being told I'm always a negative person, from SBS. Nothing like attacking the person, over trying to see their concerns. Best way to shut someone down.
So yeah, SBS discord. Their house, their rules. But you know, tell enough people to leave and dismiss their concerns for any number of reasons. All those that are left, won't be asking any hard questions. You get a bunch of yes men, aka echo chamber.
I do not follow as closely as others. A few weeks ago I stopped into the DSS Discord and asked if it had a date yet. Serpentus told me that repeatedly asking the same question was against the rules. I pointed out that it was the first time I had asked that and wondered what the DSS channel was for if not to discuss DSS. He made some forgettable sarcastic reply along the lines that I should just not login until it released. I was not rude or mean in any way. I have not logged back in since and have no plans to do so while this silly “rule” exists. All it does is make an echo-chamber which is ironic in that it’s stated purpose is to avoid one.
OP- Thank you for raising this important topic. I hope you are not punished by the community or moderators for it. If they plan to widen the small playerbase they really need to do some serious soul searching.
PS. I am probably the target market for the reverse land auction. One who followed the game and is interested in staking our land but can not afford the regular rates. You need to really work on being more welcoming to prospective purchasers. Even skeptical ones.
Had to edit my post. It was not proper so all I left was "I am in Discord a lot." I left the abridge version.
Interesting you mention Game mechanics for a game that is NOT EVEN IN ALPHA YET!
And I have to ask, why buy something form the shop if you do not know if you'll be able to use it? Can I use my TROPICAL Orchard Kit in the desert?
AL is just like any land. It can be taken away from you by force just like any other land in CoE.
Discord is their house. Just like you asked for people to be constructive in their responses to you they have the right to ask you to be constructive, and if negative give the reason. People were not doing that in Discord. They were name calling, bashing, and being down right disrespectful with no constructive thought other then to hurt and start an argument.
I have a Rocket Launcher. Your Argument is Invalid.
Posted By Drudge at 03:38 AM - Wed Jul 31 2019
I do not follow as closely as others. A few weeks ago I stopped into the DSS Discord and asked if it had a date yet. Serpentus told me that repeatedly asking the same question was against the rules. I pointed out that it was the first time I had asked that and wondered what the DSS channel was for if not to discuss DSS. He made some forgettable sarcastic reply along the lines that I should just not login until it released. I was not rude or mean in any way. I have not logged back in since and have no plans to do so while this silly “rule” exists. All it does is make an echo-chamber which is ironic in that it’s stated purpose is to avoid one.
I don't recall this happening, but if it did, I would like an opportunity to explain what transpired.
Unfortunately, I don't remember this specific incident, your name doesn't ring a bell so I guess you use a different name on Discord than you do here. This doesn't sound like me but everyone has their bad days so out of context it is possible.
If you could be so kind as to provide more details, like a date, or your Discord handle, then I can look up this incident and see what exactly happened.
EDIT 8/2/2019: Drudge and I spoke via PM and we cleared up any misunderstanding regarding this interaction.
"Stupid questions make more sense than stupid mistakes."
Serp I just searched and searched for something like this from you in discord couldn't find anything. Thought maybe it was someone else telling them, still again couldn't find it /shrug
Posted By Deftly at 08:49 AM - Wed Jul 31 2019
I feel like the community is looking for too much back and forward between themselves and the studio for an unfinished product. People will always find something broken. Let the game be playable before we spend time talking about something we can't see or experience. It's just slowing down production even more. If it's their free time and they want to chat with the community that's one thing but some of the talks in discord were just a waste of time during working hours. Like the chat about not giving dates in for projects, we didn't need to talk about that and people complained about it everywhere. Why take up more time?
While I am frustrated by the D&SS delay, the embarrassment of DM'ing out hard dates was echoed by myself as I hyped this to my circle of friends only to have to backtrack - even with all that considered; I still feel SBS have been treated quite harshly.
They made an honest mistake in underestimating\miscalculating the steps and it's plain to see the enormous amount of work they've been doing to remedy and move things along.
They've generated data for every 4m² area and this will serve them well going forward as they implement mechanic after mechanic.
But yeah, getting bogged down in the specifics of mechanics at this stage seems crazy. Save it for the Alphas & Betas, heck how many games post launch did something like overhaul their combat system? Nothing is set in stone.
Sure discuss things but the language I see is often of the type; "Hey SBS, the xxx system is broke\wrong it HAS to be fixed\changed\removed". We cannot know this, not until we're actually in the game world.
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