Seems like a good idea to reduce the workload of nobles.

Posted By Raindew at 1:33 PM - Fri Jul 26 2019

Seems like a good idea to reduce the workload of nobles.

It should still be a fun experience, I don't believe in punishing players for the sake of punishing them.

Lets people explore the rest of Noble Gameplay.

I had always thought it could be setup like that. On the individual to make the trip to the counts town. The only downside are all these mega counties. Could take a few hours travelling from their house, to the drop off point and back again. Not that I'm even sure if it has been talked about how often this even needs to happen.

Personally, I like this idea. Although I can also understand those "Spreadsheets of Elyria" folks who want to keep it really intensive. I do think this provides a pretty good middle road.

Posted By Esoba at 1:50 PM - Fri Jul 26 2019

Personally, I like this idea. Although I can also understand those "Spreadsheets of Elyria" folks who want to keep it really intensive. I do think this provides a pretty good middle road.

Exactly, I am all for immersion, but it has to be fun immersion.

This is a happy medium that enables the nobles to provide the environment needed for most peoples playstyles.

Posted By Gunnlang at 1:49 PM - Fri Jul 26 2019

I had always thought it could be setup like that. On the individual to make the trip to the counts town. The only downside are all these mega counties. Could take a few hours travelling from their house, to the drop off point and back again. Not that I'm even sure if it has been talked about how often this even needs to happen.

I imagine it'll be part of the land deed, I imagine the bigger counties could have deeds which give a longer period between paying taxes but that means individual payments are more but still the same across a monthly timeframe then someone paying once a RL week.

Nobles should be able to set up tax collector jurisdictions.

People then could all transport their taxes locally to a local tax collector in their jurisdiction. Then establish a a position of a larger area jurisdiction to go collect those taxes.

So people dont have to worry as much about traveling far to pay taxes. The tax collector can be paid for their service of taking inventory of who paid what and getting all the coin together for transportation. Then the established position created would come travel to each collection point and pick up the funds and transport them to the next level up for a fee as well. Bandits will surely tried to rob these collectors so they will need plenty of guards.

Sure you could eliminate this entirely and just have every person travel to the final tax location but I cant imagine asking people to do it so regularly.

Posted By Maulvorn at 10:54 PM - Fri Jul 26 2019

I imagine it'll be part of the land deed, I imagine the bigger counties could have deeds which give a longer period between paying taxes but that means individual payments are more but still the same across a monthly timeframe then someone paying once a RL week.

I assume counts would be able to set the timeframe. No matter how big they counties are. Would make the most sense. Does the count want to collect tax each RL week or every few RL weeks. Doesn't stop it being an hassle for people in those areas, but nothing much can be done there.

Posted By Gunnlang at 07:49 AM - Fri Jul 26 2019

I had always thought it could be setup like that. On the individual to make the trip to the counts town. The only downside are all these mega counties. Could take a few hours travelling from their house, to the drop off point and back again. Not that I'm even sure if it has been talked about how often this even needs to happen.

FWIW. That's how Caspian described it in the community voice chat we had before SBS announced multi title limits. He cited the distances people would have to travel to pay taxes in larger domains as one reason to avoid getting too big.

So for the moment, it's safe to assume that individuals will be responsible for taking their tax payments to the county seat.

I fully endorse this. I'm not interested in playing tax collector and I don't think many others are either. I was hoping for a centralized "box" of some sort that be placed in the towns center. Taxes get paid there and it's the mayor/count/dukes job to ensure that the taxes get to where they need to be going.

Posted By JohnnyViscerate at 5:40 PM - Fri Jul 26 2019

I fully endorse this. I'm not interested in playing tax collector and I don't think many others are either. I was hoping for a centralized "box" of some sort that be placed in the towns center. Taxes get paid there and it's the mayor/count/dukes job to ensure that the taxes get to where they need to be going.

pretty much this.

Tax collector doesnt mean they have to be mobile tax collectors. Like many have said bring the coin to the collector instead of the other way around. But you will still need to pay and ultimately trust the collector. If no player or npc character is in charge of making sure someone is paying their allocated portion then anyone can say they paid the taxes without ever even doing so. You may need to pay them to do it or offer some sort of incentive for someone you trust to do it. For example if I paid my taxes in full and someone accused me of not and I have no proof or receipt. I just wont pay in the future as a effiencent system isnt effective yet

I think that there may be a way to accomplish this using what we know about contracts and what is probably true of the bundle of rights -- at least for county land (not ancestral land). If the count can sell land for a renewable term -- then the owner will have to repay for a new term to renew it. That would function like taxes where the onus is on the individual. If the individual misses the deadline, they would become an adverse possessor without legal title -- and the onus would shift to the count to remove them before they gain ownership of the land in a more complete way (a way more like ancestral land, which is probably the kind of ownership someone would have if they adversely possess unowned county land (if that is allowed)).

Also, for people who say "why would I buy land for a term if I can get land forever somewhere else?" -- there are probably benefits to the owner as well. First, there is the benefit of systematic revenue for the county and the stability that would provide. More importantly, this kind of title would probably be a disincentive to adverse possession -- because why would someone adversely possess the land, with all the conflict that would involve, if they only get the rights they adversely possess, and those rights expire, when they could just adversely possess some other land (possibly county land right next door) and get rights forever? Finally, if people can pay for terms long in advance, possibly with a discount to the present value of the future payment, then the pricing of such term land could actually be comparable to forever pricing when amortized over time and the buyer could, if they buy enough future terms, pay for the land and prepay all future taxes or rents, essentially getting ancestral land (and a hedge against future tax increases or rises in property value).

I agree that this is how the tax system should work.

Posted By Maulvorn at 07:54 AM - Fri Jul 26 2019

Posted By Gunnlang at 1:49 PM - Fri Jul 26 2019

I had always thought it could be setup like that. On the individual to make the trip to the counts town. The only downside are all these mega counties. Could take a few hours travelling from their house, to the drop off point and back again. Not that I'm even sure if it has been talked about how often this even needs to happen.

I imagine it'll be part of the land deed, I imagine the bigger counties could have deeds which give a longer period between paying taxes but that means individual payments are more but still the same across a monthly timeframe then someone paying once a RL week.

I agree with malvorn

though I would add that it should be an option during the contract process of taxes to decide whether the person has to deliver it or whether someone will come to collect it

That way counts can work out deals either way with their population as works for their unique situation.

EDIT:

Example:

I owner a lumber mill, my taxes are 10 wagons of grade X level wood planks. the county is a 2 or 3 size county. So it is 6-10 Km from my far flung lumbermill to the LMT.

but I only own 1 wagon, So to deliver my taxes I either have to make 10 long ardous round trips on dirt roads quite possibly.. instead of doing what I find entertaining.

or hire someone to do it.

or as part of taxes work out a deal where the count arranges the logistics of collecting the lumber. Maybe at a slightly hire tax rate sure. But cheaper than what it would cost me to deal with.