Posted By Gromschlog at

All negotiations are made behind hidden doors and if you are not already a member of any group, your opinion is ignored and you cant get any information. Plus, to get any information at all, you need to go do Discord and ask for it, while those information should be here in the forums.

I sort of see the point you're trying to make here but frankly, the kingdoms have no need to justify themselves to people not in their kingdoms. Members in Nirath know why I pushed for Map B and indeed why I prefer Kingdom Three, independents who have watched the map voting channel in discord know some of the reasons because I have elucidated them as to why B works both geopolitically and topographically for my kingdom and my duchy in particular. There is no requirement for me to inform you (or anyone) of my reasoning in a manner that is most convenient for you since you have no responsibilities or loyalties to me or to my community.

Trying to demand that the leaders of communities tell you everything while remaining separate from those communities is just childishness. The fact that others have included you in surveys and discussions is their magnanimity, not your inalienable rights.

I'm not mocking independents here and if I'd spent less money on this game I'd very much be an independent waiting for the option that is best for me, however, I wouldn't be petulantly demanding that every kingdom tells me their reasoning for every decision. Just as I don't petulantly demand that Arkadians explain to me in great detail why they like C or why Tryggr has a Religion Minister because they don't have to justify anything to someone who isn't in their community.

Sure the independents get ignored by the kingdoms, but that's part of the choice they made by remaining independent - you want a voice in a community, join the community - you want to wait till domain selection, wait till domain selection.

The choice is yours, the risks are yours, the consequences are yours and the rewards will be yours. No one is required to help you. Vote how you please, no one can demand you vote one way or another but don't expect kingdoms to have to justify themselves to you.

Given that we're doing map selection now I suspect that there won't be independents in four months time.

well... asking for the leaders to tell me everything compared to just wanting any information about why certain decisions are made is a quite a difference, I'd say...

Just look through the forums. There is nothing at all. No kingdom or no bigger group made any thread about which map should be chosen. Nothing. All just in Discord.

And yep. Kingdoms can do what they want and dont have to include the peasants. Thats what they did irl for a long period of time and one of the reasons there were revolts every now and then :P

Just like people in germany dont like current politics and stop voting "Volksparteien", people can dislike the EU kingdoms politics and vote L. Just that and nothing more. Politics dont need to change as long as they still get enough votes to go on like they did for the last 15 years (never act, just react), but a sign of dislike once in a while isnt wrong, is it? Just like those dislikes the kingdoms give me for this thread^^ I wont cry tears there either ;)

And I'll suspect, that there will still be people that consider themselves independents after the game is fully released. They just wont be part of politics. The gameworld is big enough for some hermits ;) Obviously with all risks and rewards ;)

But hey, at least your response gave me an interesting information... we might be neighbours sooner or later... if you go for K3 and if there are some hills somewhere near kypiq territory, that might be a place where I might settle down with some hrothi :P

Okay, Let me be clear that I do not have any issues with unaffiliated groups or have anything against them.

But I have to side with chipla here, and however unfair it may sound - kings are not obliged to give out any report or statement regarding their choices.

Unaffiliated people, chose not to be part of any kingdoms mainly because they wanted to see how domain selection will go and settle after it will be known who is where. Is it the wrong thing to do? Of course not. But now it seems that unaffiliated people also want to steer every kingdom their way and are mad when kings decide something for themselves.

Moving on, I assume that majority of unaffiliated people are gentry, prolly some mayors and mb counts there, and for them, it will be very easy to pick starting location, since they are not tied by large titles, or pledged to a kingdom already, they are free to pick whatever they like. Now, is it wrong to think that kings and dukes, those who will control large portions of the map and will have a lot of responsibilities on their shoulders have more say in this? That for them it is more important to get a map where they are comfortable to play, as they have only few choices of their starting positions?

I’ve also heard a lot of blame going toward the kings that they only pick what they want(not going to repeat what I posted earlier). But when hearing some opinions, I didn’t hear anything different from unaffiliated people, Grom you said multiple times yourself that you want hrothi-kypiq border, that’s why you want everyone else to vote for maps that you like.

And finally, your argument for voting L is that you don’t want kingdoms to have secure borders, borders are large and hard to cover so people have more freedom to travel, but since when any kingdom announced that they’re going to put iron curtain and block travel? Again people blaiming kings that they either vote in spite or just for themselves, but it seems this suggestion is also made in spite “they vote C an B so let’s vote for something else” and “it will be better for us nomads who will travel around the map”.

Posted By Abigor at 01:21 AM - Tue Nov 13 2018

And finally, your argument for voting L is that you don’t want kingdoms to have secure borders, borders are large and hard to cover so people have more freedom to travel, but since when any kingdom announced that they’re going to put iron curtain and block travel? Again people blaiming kings that they either vote in spite or just for themselves, but it seems this suggestion is also made in spite “they vote C an B so let’s vote for something else” and “it will be better for us nomads who will travel around the map”.

well... we could argue that that part was the weakest of my points and I'd agree :P More points were made. And especially the "it was the secondmost liked map in a survey" isnt that bad, dont you think?

If of all the available maps, the kingdoms choose those where blocking trades is the easiest... then what else should I assume than them planning to do that? B and C have clearly the thinnes chokepoints and if you can stop people from travelling north-south on any map, then on those two. You know... if thats not their intention, they could argue with people in the forums. They dont, so the conclusion can only be made depending on the maps they choose ;)

In bordercount (number of neighbouring kingdoms), L is exactly the same like B. Just with the difference, that K3 has full control of north-south-travel in B but not in L. The thinner a continent is, the longer is the average trade distance. L would make trading easier than B. thats a fact. Even Caspian hinted in Discord, that for EU a Continent might be viable, where everything is closer together (which would be P now), because of currently less players here. Still, kingdoms aim for the least close together map of available maps.

Yes, L would have my desired border, which obviously is a strong point for me. Another one is, that it does NOT have kypiq-brudvir border, which calls for trouble more than any other northern-biome-border could, according to the lore.

I just like to discuss things. People can have their secrets if they want, but then other people will make conclusions that might be wrong and who's to blame for that? Just think about what would happen, if a politician came and said, he'd make everything better, without telling anyone about his actual plans. Sane people would only vote him, if every other choice would be worse... and not much is worse than unpredictability...

I suggested in an earlier FORUM post that unaffiliated people should band together and have their own discussions. One of those unaffiliated people made a discord and invited all the rest to join and partake in said discussions. Did you?

Posted By Sanguinesh Eviscerator at 8:52 PM - Mon Nov 12 2018

I suggested in an earlier FORUM post that unaffiliated people should band together and have their own discussions. One of those unaffiliated people made a discord and invited all the rest to join and partake in said discussions. Did you?

Part of their point was transparency and discord doesn't address that - hence posting. Haha! :P

Alas, Grom - you're likely going to have to just come to terms with whatever map is chosen and pretend that there was no map selection and it was randomly generated from the beginning like I'm going to! Haha. I understand your plight, though.

Much of what you say is true Gromschlog but what's the difference between how major decisions are made in CoE or in the real world? Having seen the debacle regarding forum postings during round 1 it's perfectly understandable why few people want to open that can of worms in round 2.

Couple of things I'd say, firstly: you are free to vote for whichever map you wish so your voice will be heard, along with everyone else who votes, but you are going to be in a minority and it's very unlikely that you'll get what you wish for.

However, my second point; you seem to believe that movement will be restricted (heavily from my understanding of your post?), and that makes no sense to me. Whilst there may, in time, be walled borders, I certainly don't see them as commonplace and I would have thought lone travellers would be met by more curiosity/interest than outright hostility at first contact.

I guess we'll see how it all pans out but I wish you good fortune regardless.

Posted By Chronic at 08:52 AM - Tue Nov 13 2018

Posted By Sanguinesh Eviscerator at 8:52 PM - Mon Nov 12 2018

I suggested in an earlier FORUM post that unaffiliated people should band together and have their own discussions. One of those unaffiliated people made a discord and invited all the rest to join and partake in said discussions. Did you?

Part of their point was transparency and discord doesn't address that - hence posting. Haha! :P

Alas, Grom - you're likely going to have to just come to terms with whatever map is chosen and pretend that there was no map selection and it was randomly generated from the beginning like I'm going to! Haha. I understand your plight, though.

exactly.

I think we are seeing the first glints of how this game actually will play out.

The rich\ powerful few will impose there way on us the common folk.

Vote L, say no to centralized power and control.

I'm not quite sure why you portray it as the rich/powerful few against the rest...

Kingdoms that already formed into communities obviously stick together, it's not just some kings that decided on a whim what they personally like best.

Discussions in communities takes place in community channels... There are a lot of players without titles in the kingdoms and their voices get heard.

It's much easier to discuss things in Discord than the forums. Not to mention, although the kingdoms have (mostly) been working together to get a map that works for all, each kingdom wants what's best for its communities.

Independents aren't part of those communities, there is absolutely no incentive for a kingdom to disclose its plans to independents as you are actively choosing not to be a part of a kingdom community.

There is nothing wrong with being independent and reserving your right to make a choice once all the map/domain info is available to you, but you can't have your cake and eat it.

Unaffiliated people vote C with Arkadia for a fair map where everyone got his fair share of land and borders. As we know all the 4 kingdoms are in good relationship so no problems in travelling and trade around. In Arkadia we will be happy to accept all travellers and trades. Vote map C .

Im sorry, Augustus, but everytime I read something of you its remind me of a special person from the US who is coincidentally the president.

Posted By Werhase at 1:09 PM - Tue Nov 13 2018

Im sorry, Augustus, but everytime I read something of you its remind me of a special person from the US who is coincidentally the president.

Tnx mate I love Trump but I am more Putin style. God bless you mate. Arkadia first...... 😂.

Posted By EmmaGoldenfeld at 12:20 PM - Tue Nov 13 2018

I'm not quite sure why you portray it as the rich/powerful few against the rest...

Kingdoms that already formed into communities obviously stick together, it's not just some kings that decided on a whim what they personally like best.

Discussions in communities takes place in community channels... There are a lot of players without titles in the kingdoms and their voices get heard.

Well said. Voting for L is a good way to have their voices getting heard. Pity that the majority always wins in an democracy. Maybe the independents should try to form an anarchy, and see how that works out.