hello
Guilds will act more like real-life guilds than historical guilds, so a "thieves guild" doesn't make much sense.
The stated bonus for guilds that I've seen is that they make mass-production of goods easier. Though that might mean a counterfeiting guild could be possible.
I'm not sure exactly how the illegal side of the game will work when it comes to a guild. We don't know how illegal services would work gameplay-wise when it comes to making illegal contracts or much of anything else...As of right now, I think you would be making a thieves' organization. An organization is like a self funded club. If you want to get fellow thieves together and do whatever is you guys do, you can do that. Again, I haven't heard of any gameplay mechanics that support an illegal guild or organization. Not saying there won't be. If anything I sure you could still do it, even if there weren't any direct mechanics to support it.
I'm pretty sure the mechanics will be in place to allow you to organize and gain whatever benefits there may be even if you're establishing some sort of deviant guild. It'll be up to individual kingdoms to set their own rules, so I don't see Soulbound Studios enforcing any in their game code. How you work on advertising your guild in and out of game could be a challenge but I wish you well.
@Pigsy,
You should check out the other kinds of groups possible. Settlements, Associations, and even families may be useful to deviant play of various sorts. All but families come with some in-game financial requirements (i.e. taxes), and larger settlements come with player-time commitments for the boss.
Any type of guild can not be illegal, it is the activities of the guild members that would be potentially illegal. However that still depends on the What/Where/When/How of it all. Thats because a thieves guild would be be doing illegal activities within their own settlement/area, however if they are sent out to a neighbouring kingdom to steal something, such as important documents/blueprints, then it would be both legal and illegal.... illegal where it's done, but no one in your own kingdom is going to arrest you for it.
So legal or illegal, it's just a matter of perspective, but if you do plan to do something shady, don't do it on your doorstep otherwise your going to be instantly caught and arrested.
I can foresee a guild or larger group of individuals trying to control a town and making their own rules (not laws) that are contrary to the wishes of the kingdom and kingdom law. If this were to come to light I would assume they would all be considered outlaws and the guild would be considered illegal by the crown.
Within the guild they could have their own structure and rules that everyone must follow, which again may are may not be against the kingdom laws.
"Count Eldric Blackmoore of The Haven, offering direct support for the Hunters, Explorers and Gathers of Elyria"
That's like banning knives because knives have killed people.
Guilds aren't legal or illegal, they can be good and evil, but they can't be illegal, only people do illegal things
I think its obvious that any illegal operation worth its salt would have a decent front for whatever they are doing.
For example, if they ship illegal goods around a kingdom (such as stolen military supplies) then they can just store that stuff with a perfectly legal good.
What would really impress me is if someone managed to create a money laundering guild.
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It just takes a small amount of imagination to figure this one out. It is exactly the same as RL crime organizations; when you register your guild, you register the occupation of the shell entity. So, for example, a thieves guild might register themselves as a merchant guild and at face value they would operate like a merchant guild (possibly even having members who are unaware that it is involved in crime at all). Of course it all depends on the specifics of how guilds will operate once the game launches, but I see no reason why it couldn't exist in that capacity right now.
Posted By LukeSpyro at 12:00 PM - Wed Feb 21 2018
What would really impress me is if someone managed to create a money laundering guild.
In order for that to be possible, the concept of "dirty money" has to be part of the game. If money that is stolen can be tracked by detectives, then money laundering could easily be achieved in the same manner as it is in RL - using a shell company that blends the dirty and clean money together amongst guilty and innocent parties. Though I would be shocked if the detective skill can track dirty money. It's not like medieval currency had barcodes. Simpler forms of laundering would be stealing bags of grain with identifying marks on the bags, necessitating the thief to change bags (though the bag itself could still leave a trail). More complex would be stealing cattle with a specific brand, and I'm assuming a "quiet" butchery would be needed in that scenario.
All comes down to what all is possible in the game, but it appears that the tools might be there for organized crime to thrive under the right leadership.
I've mentioned it before, but one of my mandates here is to make sure there is room for, as well the tools necessary to support, a healthy criminal underworld. That includes the sort of infrastructure you might imagine when someone says "theives guild."
An organization of thieves is going to need a way to organize and coordinate their efforts to avoid "overfishing", a way to offload easily identifiable goods, a way to forge papers, and a way to handle "splitting the take" or otherwise distributing the gains of the organization safely.
I'd suggest organizing as an association, perhaps with a public-facing goal of bettering the plight of the poor and homeless within their community. It would justify real estate purchases in strange areas, legitimize the movement of shady characters into and out of association property ("Training pickpockets? My word! No sir! We're educating the troubled youth of this slum!") and provide a mechanism for distributing the wealth ("We're giving out alms, your grace, as you can clearly see").
Of course, now that I've mentioned it... ;)
There's some question as to allowing deviant-only contracts and organizations outside of that, too, but nothing firm at this point. We kind of like the idea of "shadow contracts," but it's not 100% necessary since you can work out the same actions using the existing tools we'll be providing.
Anyway, hope that helps! :)
I think that you will be able to for example, make a shelter in a remote area, bring your gang and be there, you don't necessarily need a thief guild, because there are no things to find out or make together
The idea of a "deviant only" contract sounds silly to me. Legally binding the illegal is an oxymoron unto itself.
"Honor among thieves" was a saying because there was no law for the unlawful, except for your word. If your word was bad, you didn't have the law to back you up.
Thus, if someone agrees to do something illegal for someone else, the only enforcement anyone should count on is whether or not violence will come if someone reneges.
But there are and can be contracts to do illegal things.
And in the very worst cases, contracts to sell your soul to the devil for the right price.
It's just a formality identifying the agreement and the terms, which would either be enforced by the other party or an "association" responsible for the enforcement of such things, like a "thieves guild".
Posted By Vucar at 2:47 PM - Wed Feb 21 2018
The idea of a "deviant only" contract sounds silly to me. Legally binding the illegal is an oxymoron unto itself.
Excuse my word choice. What I mean in this case is the idea of an alternative form of contract meant to be "crowd-enforced" rather than enforced through the legal system. Mechanically you could tokenize it the way bounties and crimes are dealt with, such that failure to live up to the contract would result in a piece of information ("a token") that deviant PCs and NPCs alike could react to. It would be a way to systematize "honor among thieves," essentially, not a mechanism of legality for essentially illegal acts. :)
Oh, a quick aside to the whole thread. Just something I want to reiterate, basically: A skill being in the deviant tree doesn't actually make it illegal automatically. A locksmith might decide to learn lockpicking, to use a popular example, for perfectly legitimate and legal reasons.
Posted By Snipehunter at 7:03 PM - Wed Feb 21 2018
Posted By Vucar at 2:47 PM - Wed Feb 21 2018
The idea of a "deviant only" contract sounds silly to me. Legally binding the illegal is an oxymoron unto itself.
Excuse my word choice. What I mean in this case is the idea of an alternative form of contract meant to be "crowd-enforced" rather than enforced through the legal system. Mechanically you could tokenize it the way bounties and crimes are dealt with, such that failure to live up to the contract would result in a piece of information ("a token") that deviant PCs and NPCs alike could react to. It would be a way to systematize "honor among thieves," essentially, not a mechanism of legality for essentially illegal acts. :)
Oh, a quick aside to the whole thread. Just something I want to reiterate, basically: A skill being in the deviant tree doesn't actually make it illegal automatically. A locksmith might decide to learn lockpicking, to use a popular example, for perfectly legitimate and legal reasons.
"Who are you, and how did you get in here?" "I'm a locksmith, and I'm a locksmith."
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