I don't know. That is kind of like the President using tax money to buy some speakers for the White House. Or getting new dress shoes because of a scuff on them.

Personally, I wouldn't use taxes for personal gain. That's just asking to be overthrown by someone with detective skills to find out. But in my opinion, the game system shouldn't bar you from taking tax money, it should be your own personal choice and risk.

Posted By DoctorFaust at 09:10 AM - Fri Aug 04 2017

I don't know. That is kind of like the President using tax money to buy some speakers for the White House. Or getting new dress shoes because of a scuff on them.

Personally, I wouldn't use taxes for personal gain. That's just asking to be overthrown by someone with detective skills to find out. But in my opinion, the game system shouldn't bar you from taking tax money, it should be your own personal choice and risk.

I see your point, but the President is also paid a salary for his position, which comes from Tax dollars.

I would be fine with something like this put in place for CoE. The Mayor/Count/Duke/King gets a percentage of taxes for personal use, but can't freely spend out of the treasury.

On the flip side, it could be built into the game system that if your residents don't see you, as the leader, reinvesting a sufficient portion of the taxes into the community, then they become unhappy.

Remember also you need to pay taxes back to the Count/Countess as well.

I feel you use the taxes/resources you gather to improve the settlement for the betterment of everyone in the community. I plan on having a town council to let those help with dictating what we will use funds for in the community. I plan on taking a small cut of the tax money, because most my money will come from rented properties in the settlement. But hoping to barter resources with services that PC/NPC need in the community. I don't want to be run off for stealing from my residents.

Most likely will be a scribe and make some addition money writting up contracts.

Yep, I remember the taxes to the count (the same question would apply to how they use the resources).

I do think there should be some degree of "personal gain" from being the leader - it would fit into the setting (I don't know of any feudal society where the leader's personal wealth didn't stem, at least partially, from the treasury). However, I do think there should be systems in place to reflect responsible/irresponsible use of the treasury.

Personally, if a leader wants to choose to build a community, tax them into the ground for personal gain, then abscond with the money/resources - that should be allowed.

Just like if a count/duke/king (as we have plenty of examples of throughout history) wanted to do the same thing - eventually the "peasants" would revolt and lead a rebellion against them.

@Abool

Fair enough, however I think there is plenty of room for, let's say, a 5-10% allotment for personal use, without upsetting the balance.

As I alluded to before, there should be some type of "salary" for the leaders, as running their town/county/duchy/kingdom is their "job", and would take away from pursuing other profitable activities.

I do agree that if that "salary" is abused, it should reflect on their popularity and make it easier to "overthrow" them.

Remember several things:

1) All objects are "existing" in CoE, which means coins, resources, objects, every thing exist physically.

2) The town by itself do not exist, it exist thru the charter that is signed between the Mayor and the count.

3) Taxes are paid to the Mayor (at least settlement taxes), not the settlement as the settlement do not really exist on its own

When you combine those 3 points, you end up with the fact that there will not be such a thing as a public treasury. The Mayor is responsible to pay taxes to the Count, not the settlement.

Then remember that taxes are fixed by law and contract and they state what you have to pay, not a percentage of something, they will say x amount of grain, Y amount of iron and z coins ... without ever knowing what the settlement population paid as taxes. Maybe your settlement people paid some chicken, a few pigs, logs and some coins, but no grain and no iron, but your count expect iron and grain, so you the mayor need to provide those as your tax to the count, what you do with what the people of your settlement gave you is your business.

But, as much as tax go to your pocket, spending for the town comes from your pocket too. The south tower need repair ? that's on you, how you do it is up to you, maybe you trade work on the tower for tax to people or you ask for materials used in the repair as tax and pay for the work or just pay yourself and ask other things as tax, or do not repair the south tower, after all what is that tower for ? the settlement never been attacked and the upkeep is only a dead wait, or even you decide to tear the tower down, use the materials to build new houses or something.... all is up to you.

the domain is yours to rule for better or worse, you can chose to exonerate your people from taxes, it will not change the fact that the count will expect you to pay full tax to him.

@Markof

I get what you are saying, but it would be a bad count who would set up a tax in a form that a town would have no way to pay.

If a town is surrounded by farmland and trees, but has no access to iron, then it would be silly to tax them on something they have no way to produce.

However, on the flip side, I am...unsure...about the rest of your comments. Everything I have read implies that there is a "Town Charter", and the "contract" is from the count to have a "town". A new mayor can be voted in, or take over by owning the majority of the property in a town - I am not sure what you are describing would work if everything is done on a "personal" level.

That would imply that if a Mayor is "ousted", he would just pack up all the town's resources and go home, since you are saying they aren't the town's resources, they are his.

@Marovec

Sorry for being unclear, when i was talking about personal level i mean mayor level who ever that one is, the settlement on itself is not an entity, not like we have now, it only exist on the interaction of his mayor and the count.

Without a mayor the settlement is no more a town because it has no more charter. If Mayor change then i guess the charter needs to be changed too.

My example on tax was not the best either i agree, but it was mainly meant to point the fact that the tax requested by the count to the mayor is not necessarily linked to the sum of the taxes the mayor get from the people of his settlement.

To make it clearer, let say that the settlement runs an iron mine, but that iron mine is owned by the mayor, the other land owners in the settlement are either lumberjack or farmers. The count, knows about the mine and need the iron because his duke knows it too and want the iron for his forges to make weapons for his troops, so the duke ask for iron to his count as tax, and the count ask the mayor for iron as tax. The mayor pay the iron from his mine, but will also ask tax to his people. Those people will not pay him in iron as they do not have iron, but they will pay him in logs and farm products.

To your last point, it is exactly as i see it, if the council vote a mayor out, he is out, a new mayor is elected, a new charter is signed or the old one modified and at next tax payment, the new mayor will have to pay the tax to the count and get the taxes from the settlement people. The former mayor will obviously keep what was his when he was kicked out of office. better evict your mayor only after he paid the tax to the count or discuss with him to skip one payment.

We have Dev confirmation about the ''there is no public treasure''? I remember the discussion about the ''if im a Count can i buy all land and pay 0 gold?'' first half of the year.

https://chroniclesofelyria.com/forum/topic/21065/land-selection?page=2#post232689

This post, from @Markof and

And this, from @Oracle

https://chroniclesofelyria.com/forum/topic/19328/land-and-title#post208522

So..i really hope for some clarification....

not sure it has all the answers you seek but here starts on tax at 11:40 into the Q&A

tax is also somthing they have not completly gone into as it is rather complicate system at the best of times.

now just regarding the mayor losing his title. a little know fact is that the mayor starts in a Mayoral house or Villa (depends on pledge type) this house is not owned by the mayor and he looses it if he is kicked out of office...

now the question is what happens to the gear in said house? say the mayors treasury was hidden in the house and he now no longer has access to it then the new mayor would take ownership of this. (i recommend to all mayors to Buy your own land build your own house and live in it and store ur cash there, then rent out the town house)

now the way a mayor can be removed is land ownership and Disloyalty to there count (there is also death with no heirs but this point ur dead u loss everything)

the only way the "people" could remove a mayor without having the land vote to do so would literally be sieging his home for a month to prevent him getting to his other lands then adverse poising all his other lands or enough to kick him out of office in a land vote.

the thing with this is you would need a huge support base to pull of this plan and need the count not to get involved.

other wise u need to buy up all the land in town to vote him out and realy if he has been over taxing you to make u want to do this then where is the money to buy it?

another major thing we all need to deal with is there is no such thing as a starting currency... i wish there was life would be easier that way then a barter system but still it is what it is.

also just to confirm as a mayor you will have alot of lands so one would expect u are earning money from these lands as well so having to dip into town founds should not be a major thing.