As far as rarity, I would assume it depends on where you go. That is, assuming that vampyrism can spread.

However, I don't think you'll ever see many in one place at a time, unless they're NPCs or just idiots.

Reason being that vampires have to feed. If they start overfeeding, they'll lose food, be forced to relocate (probably not easy to do if you can't go into sunlight), or stave to death.

Another scenario is that they start overfeeding, draw attention, and get attacked by an angry mob.

Basically what that means is that there's going to need to be a pretty high amount of mortals to each vampire, in order for a vampire to survive in one area for a significant amount of time.

So I don't think we'll see more than 1 per, say, 100 people, otherwise problems will arise.

Posted By Scheneighnay at 9:22 PM - Thu Oct 13 2016

So I don't think we'll see more than 1 per, say, 100 people, otherwise problems will arise.

This would not be fun to be the only Vampire in a Duchy, surrounded by 100 pitchfork wielding bigots who want to kill the Vampire on site and watch it burn to bitter ashes in the dreadful sun. I don't think there is a playable balance here. Of course all of this talk is speculation and theory.

Vampires need to be among others like them...

Their disadvantage already makes it harder for them to survive alone, but they should be able to have their own culture and civilization. They will have a weaker creation called a Dhampyr which will have the strengths of a Vampire, with none of its weaknesses. In game terms, Dhampyr will have increased attributes without degradation that comes with aging, so they will maintain high levels of strength while also having strong mental capabilities and likely elevated social skills as well.

Unlike a Vampire, a Dhampyr has a soul. This means your character can learn and retain skills learned during its unnatural life (if lasting and not killed early). Dhampyr's are not immortal but they also do live longer (age slower), can go in the sun and will have a higher chance of having a talent. Dhaympyr's do not feed on or consume souls like Vampires do, and are, for all intents an purposes, a regular character, just with higher attributes than an average player has.

So in this understanding, we can look at Vampires like the Kings/Queens and the Dhaympyr's like their supernatural cultivation; think of mutants or divine offspring, which they will be if a Vampire mates with a human. But since a Vampire is powerful, albeit vulnerable, it will need others to protect it. I look forward to seeing how the lore on their creation plays out. But I do not think you should stick a Vampire in an a situation where it can not sustain itself without help.

Furthermore, I do not think there should be a rule against more than one Vampire being together, if they can coexist peacefully. In lore, Vampires always hunted in clans, just like Werewolves roamed in packs. To isolate them, would be a disgrace to the lore.

Posted By Serverus1 at 7:48 PM - Fri Oct 14 2016

Furthermore, I do not think there should be a rule against more than one Vampire being together, if they can coexist peacefully. In lore, Vampires always hunted in clans, just like Werewolves roamed in packs. To isolate them, would be a disgrace to the lore.

presses glasses further up nose

As a certified Vampire the Masquerade nerd and storyteller, i take issue with the above.

According to World of Darkness lore, many vampires are naturally self-isolating and extremely self-interested and only come together to uphold the Masquerade of there being no vampires and ensure law and order in the underworld.

I'm not talking about how I want things to work, but rather how things likely will work.

If you've studied ecology at all, you should be aware of the concept of an environmental carrying capacity

The article should explain it pretty well, but the gist of it is that populations are limited by their environment.

From what we know about vampires, it's safe to assume that there will be a very low environmental carrying capacity for them. Rather than traditional limiting factors such as diseases, they would be threatened with discovery if too many people start dying in their AO, and their would-be prey get suspicious and go on a hunt.

Even a small group of vampires likely wouldn't be expected to last long, unless they're in a massive city with no other vampires.

The only way a group of them might survive is if every time they start getting hunted, they sacrifice one of their own to make it look like it was only a single vampire's doing. That might only work once, however.

Couldn't you have a couple alts living in your house as food?

I don't know if vampires would be hunted into extinction at all. Enough people will want to try and play as one for the sake of novelty that I can see a PVP oriented group trying to weaponize vampirism. There is little stopping them from having alts as "cattle" to feed on if no other easy victims are available.

I could absolutely see alts as herd for a vampire working out.

You're effectively paying extra money with every bit of spirit drain of your own alt you sustain your vampire main off of, so its not like its free.

My next concern is -- what if a player just has lots of money, and they go farther than drain the spirit to sustain themselves?

What if they eat the souls of ten of their own alts? Can they become 10 souls stronger as a vampire by eating OPC alts?

I guess it would depend on what exactly they gain from draining the soul, if the alt i very new and has now experience or accomplishments, what will the vap gain apart from extended life?

Posted By Kalzack at 9:51 PM - Fri Oct 14 2016

I guess it would depend on what exactly they gain from draining the soul, if the alt i very new and has now experience or accomplishments, what will the vap gain apart from extended life?

Souls go beyond the life of an individual. You could by chance start off with an old soul that has already seen 3 lives or more. Having not lived out the current one is a moot point.

We don't know exactly what it means to gain "power" from souls yet, so there's that limitation as well.

The only immediate suggestion i'd offer is that you cannot turn another player into a vampire if they're an OPC and not online. Lore-wise, i don't know how you explain that though.

Something to the effect of the spirit walk needing to be completed, and ending at the vampire sire instead of the players body maybe...

Well, you could say the same for guilds I think. Any group tbh. If I were to somehow become a vampire. The first thing me and my group would do is spread it between ourselves and our families creating the same horde for free.

It's basically spending money to create a horde or having friends to create the horde.

I think doing something where there are benchmarks may combat either problem. Like if you off 5 people in a day it's not gonna give you more power. Maybe the vampire's body has to adapt to it's new strength for _ (insert time here) before it can further evolve. This would be a lore respecting method to limit the problem. Like say the limit was 1 power spike every 3 days. No matter how many alts he makes or friends he has he can't cheat because his body is still adapting and cannot further gain power. He just sustains it.